Questions on God's creation days

[erawdrah]

So how many years ago, God created probably mankind ?

About 50,000 years ago (rough estimate)..

Where do you get 50,000 years? What process did you use to get this number?

And how can be explained, that dinos extinct ?

Dinos became extinct probably due to meteor showers that impacted the earth about 65.5 million years ago.

I thought that when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden that's what brought death to the world. How did Dinosaurs die before death was brought into the world? Why do dinosaurs (term coined in the late 1800s) have to be extinct? Couldn't they had been on the Ark? What's the evidence for dinosaurs being alive 65 million years ago?

And when would the flood have happened ? Was the flood the cause of the extinction of the Dinossaurs ?

Noah's flood? Hard to tell when it happened, perhaps 40,000 BC, others say between 4500BC to 3100 BC. If the flood was a local flood then no it would not have caused the max extinction of the dinosaurs.

If you follow genealogy of Genesis, then the flood happened about 1,500 years after creation. I'm not trying to cause a fight I just want to know this point of view. God was going to destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and everything that is in the earth shall die Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. This indicates the whole earth flood. Why would God only destroy a region if he was sad he made man? If it was local, why did Noah build such a large ark? I really just want to know this view point.

More about that here...
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... flood.html

[Gman]

Where do you get 50,000 years? What process did you use to get this number?

A number of different ways.. Radiocarbon dating, their location in the sediments, etc..

I thought that when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden that's what brought death to the world. How did Dinosaurs die before death was brought into the world?

Because Adam and Eve and animals were not created as an immortal beings. Adam and Eve's sin in the garden brought "spiritual death" to the world not physical.

Why do dinosaurs (term coined in the late 1800s) have to be extinct? Couldn't they had been on the Ark? What's the evidence for dinosaurs being alive 65 million years ago?

The dinos could not have been on the ark... They would not have fit nor have been provided for.

If you follow genealogy of Genesis, then the flood happened about 1,500 years after creation. I'm not trying to cause a fight I just want to know this point of view. God was going to destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and everything that is in the earth shall die Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. This indicates the whole earth flood. Why would God only destroy a region if he was sad he made man? If it was local, why did Noah build such a large ark? I really just want to know this view point.

You are going off topic here.. If you would like to start another post on Noah's flood we will address it. If not, you can add to this one here.

Thank you..

[erawdrah]

Where do you get 50,000 years? What process did you use to get this number?

A number of different ways.. Radiocarbon dating, their location in the sediments, etc..

The facts state that we cannot know the age of something older than 45,000 years in the past (using Radiocarbon Dating), so science cannot know the age of something if it is indeed beyond 45,000 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating). It's very interesting that things they date with Potassium-Argon dating to be millions of years still have C14 in them. If theory holds then, C14 has a half life of 5730+/-, there shouldn't be a measurable amount of C14 in them. But they find C14 in them. Here's link to a guy who stepped down at a university in Germany for falsify radiometric dating to get the dates he thought the bones should be. http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/9512/msg00260.html

I thought that when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden that's what brought death to the world. How did Dinosaurs die before death was brought into the world?

Because Adam and Eve and animals were not created as an immortal beings. Adam and Eve's sin in the garden brought "spiritual death" to the world not physical.

It brought spiritual death as well as mortal death Genesis 3:17-19. This passage isn't talking about spiritual death but a physical death.

Why do dinosaurs (term coined in the late 1800s) have to be extinct? Couldn't they had been on the Ark? What's the evidence for dinosaurs being alive 65 million years ago?

The dinos could not have been on the ark... They would not have fit nor have been provided for.

How big was the ark? Why did they have to take fully grown dinosaurs? The biggest dinosaur egg found is the size of a football http://thescitechjournal.blogspot.com/2 ... r-egg.html So I would say that dinosaurs didn't start out huge. Also, everything creature including man was ate vegetation. Genesis 1:29-30

EDIT: Also if Dinosaurs were created before Adam then this verse can not be true Ex 20:11.

If you follow genealogy of Genesis, then the flood happened about 1,500 years after creation. I'm not trying to cause a fight I just want to know this point of view. God was going to destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven, and everything that is in the earth shall die Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. This indicates the whole earth flood. Why would God only destroy a region if he was sad he made man? If it was local, why did Noah build such a large ark? I really just want to know this view point.

You are going off topic here.. If you would like to start another post on Noah's flood we will address it. If not, you can add to this one here.

I will look at the forum you posted. I just included this because it was one the original questions.

Thank you..

Again Thanks for your time. I do like to see what other people believe. Have a great day!

[ageofknowledge]

It's important to note there are different creation models out there that interpret scripture very differently. I think Reasons to Believe has the best one imo.

[Gman]

erawdrah,

I'm splitting this off the other topic since it focuses more on God's timing with a 6 day creation. I hope you don't mind...

The facts state that we cannot know the age of something older than 45,000 years in the past (using Radiocarbon Dating), so science cannot know the age of something if it is indeed beyond 45,000 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating). It's very interesting that things they date with Potassium-Argon dating to be millions of years still have C14 in them. If theory holds then, C14 has a half life of 5730+/-, there shouldn't be a measurable amount of C14 in them. But they find C14 in them. Here's link to a guy who stepped down at a university in Germany for falsify radiometric dating to get the dates he thought the bones should be. http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/9512/ ... 0.html[

But even the link you provided from wikipedia claims that the age can be determined up to 60,000 years. No one is claiming that C14 dating is completely accurate, it cannot date back millions of years but it can give us some rough estimates.. If you are claiming that C14 can go back at least 45,000 years, then that already puts a stop to the 6,000 year argument.

Here is a good link on radiometric dating that will explain it more..

http://www.answersincreation.org/radiometricdating.htm

It brought spiritual death as well as mortal death Genesis 3:17-19. This passage isn't talking about spiritual death but a physical death.

Ok, if you think that this passage was talking about physical death then why didn't Adam die the very day he sinned as explained in Genesis 2:17?

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

How big was the ark? Why did they have to take fully grown dinosaurs? The biggest dinosaur egg found is the size of a football http://thescitechjournal.blogspot.com/2 ... r-egg.html So I would say that dinosaurs didn't start out huge. Also, everything creature including man was ate vegetation. Genesis 1:29-30

But Genesis claims that the animals were adults... Genesis 7:2 seems to be saying that the males had mates.

2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

But even if you say they are eggs. How is Noah going to incubate them?

EDIT: Also if Dinosaurs were created before Adam then this verse can not be true Ex 20:11.

How so?

I will look at the forum you posted. I just included this because it was one the original questions.
Again Thanks for your time. I do like to see what other people believe. Have a great day!

No problem... Thanks for the questions..

[erawdrah]

erawdrah,

I'm splitting this off the other topic since it focuses more on God's timing with a 6 day creation. I hope you don't mind...

The facts state that we cannot know the age of something older than 45,000 years in the past (using Radiocarbon Dating), so science cannot know the age of something if it is indeed beyond 45,000 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating). It's very interesting that things they date with Potassium-Argon dating to be millions of years still have C14 in them. If theory holds then, C14 has a half life of 5730+/-, there shouldn't be a measurable amount of C14 in them. But they find C14 in them. Here's link to a guy who stepped down at a university in Germany for falsify radiometric dating to get the dates he thought the bones should be. http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/9512/ ... 0.html[

But even the link you provided from wikipedia claims that the age can be determined up to 60,000 years.

Please look at the last line before the examples toward the middle bottom of the page "These discoveries improved the calibration for the radiocarbon technique and extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past"

No one is claiming that C14 dating is completely accurate, it cannot date back millions of years but it can give us some rough estimates.. If you are claiming that C14 can go back at least 45,000 years, then that already puts a stop to the 6,000 year argument.

Here is a good link on radiometric dating that will explain it more..

http://www.answersincreation.org/radiometricdating.htm

I see that I didn't finish my thought on this. Working and reading forums is never good, of course I can't do 2 things at once . The bigger point of radiometric carbon dating is equilibrium. According to Libby, C14 would reach equilibrium in the atmosphere in 30,000 years. The rate at which C14 was made would equal the rate at which it decays. He found that the rate of C14 creation was 20% higher than the decay. His findings were 78% less C14 than what he should've found. This showed a earth model that was less than 10,000 years. http://creation.com/carbon-14-dating-ex ... yday-terms . All of the radiometric dating has assumptions in them. C14 dating gives assumption that we know what the starting level of C14 was in the test subject. Potassium-Argon assumes consistent decay with no contamination. Did you know that a rock that sits in water will loose 80% of it's K40? How can you get a accurate reading? This is an excellent power point on radiometric dating. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/526704/Dati ... -and-Rocks It gives it to you in simple terms (which I need since I'm not a scientist) and with sources.

It brought spiritual death as well as mortal death Genesis 3:17-19. This passage isn't talking about spiritual death but a physical death.

Ok, if you think that this passage was talking about physical death then why didn't Adam die the very day he sinned as explained in Genesis 2:17?

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 2:17 is speaking of spiritual death, Gen 3:17-19 is speaking of physical death. I don't believe there was death in the garden of Eden until Adam and Eve sinned.

How big was the ark? Why did they have to take fully grown dinosaurs? The biggest dinosaur egg found is the size of a football http://thescitechjournal.blogspot.com/2 ... r-egg.html So I would say that dinosaurs didn't start out huge. Also, everything creature including man was ate vegetation. Genesis 1:29-30

But Genesis claims that the animals were adults... Genesis 7:2 seems to be saying that the males had mates.

2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

But even if you say they are eggs. How is Noah going to incubate them?

I didn't mean eggs were taken, I meant young ones. My point with the eggs are that dinosaurs started out very small. They were not these huge creatures from birth or hatching (however you say that). At what age are dinosaurs able to reproduce?

EDIT: Also if Dinosaurs were created before Adam then this verse can not be true Ex 20:11.

How so?

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. "God made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is" This means that God made everything in that six days, not dinosaurs then they died out. Then he made everything else including man. If dinosaurs were extinct 65 million years ago, why are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? The Bible speaks of these in the present tense. Job 40:15-24 & 41. What are the ramifications if we were to find a living dinosaur now? I'm not saying we would but what would that mean? Anything?

I will look at the forum you posted. I just included this because it was one the original questions.
Again Thanks for your time. I do like to see what other people believe. Have a great day!

No problem... Thanks for the questions..

I will check out the other forum you started. Thanks

[jlay]

Ok, if you think that this passage was talking about physical death then why didn't Adam die the very day he sinned as explained in Genesis 2:17?

He did die. just as the moment you or I are born we begin the process of dying. At that moment the curse of death was upon him, and his body became subject to decay. It is also the point at which Adam began to age. Could the age of Adam in the bible be from this point? How long did Adam dwell in the garden before he sinned?

[erawdrah]

Ok, if you think that this passage was talking about physical death then why didn't Adam die the very day he sinned as explained in Genesis 2:17?

He did die. just as the moment you or I are born we begin the process of dying. At that moment the curse of death was upon him, and his body became subject to decay. It is also the point at which Adam began to age. Could the age of Adam in the bible be from this point? How long did Adam dwell in the garden before he sinned?

I would think Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden around 80-100 years. Gen 5:3 says Adam was 130 yrs old when they had Seth. Seth was preceded by Cain and Able. They didn't have children until they were kicked out of Eden. I really don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden, this is just a guess. You bring up a great idea that Adam's age might have been count from the point they sinned instead of when he was created. Did Adam and Eve keep track of time? We know they had seasons Gen 1:14 so they could have keep track of time. Very good point.

[Byblos]

Ok, if you think that this passage was talking about physical death then why didn't Adam die the very day he sinned as explained in Genesis 2:17?

He did die. just as the moment you or I are born we begin the process of dying. At that moment the curse of death was upon him, and his body became subject to decay. It is also the point at which Adam began to age. Could the age of Adam in the bible be from this point? How long did Adam dwell in the garden before he sinned?

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So what you're saying is that in this case a day is not a literal 24-hour day?

[Gman]

Please look at the last line before the examples toward the middle bottom of the page "These discoveries improved the calibration for the radiocarbon technique and extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past"

Ok, so if these discoveries improved the calibration for the radiocarbon technique and extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past, how does this fit the 6,000 years theory?

I see that I didn't finish my thought on this. Working and reading forums is never good, of course I can't do 2 things at once . The bigger point of radiometric carbon dating is equilibrium. According to Libby, C14 would reach equilibrium in the atmosphere in 30,000 years. The rate at which C14 was made would equal the rate at which it decays. He found that the rate of C14 creation was 20% higher than the decay. His findings were 78% less C14 than what he should've found. This showed a earth model that was less than 10,000 years. http://creation.com/carbon-14-dating-ex ... yday-terms . All of the radiometric dating has assumptions in them. C14 dating gives assumption that we know what the starting level of C14 was in the test subject. Potassium-Argon assumes consistent decay with no contamination. Did you know that a rock that sits in water will loose 80% of it's K40? How can you get a accurate reading? This is an excellent power point on radiometric dating. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/526704/Dati ... -and-Rocks It gives it to you in simple terms (which I need since I'm not a scientist) and with sources.

We've already agreed that radiometric carbon dating is not completely accurate. But the link you provided earlier stated that the calibration for the radiocarbon technique extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past. I'm really not understanding what you are advocating now.. Can you be more specific?

Gen 2:17 is speaking of spiritual death, Gen 3:17-19 is speaking of physical death. I don't believe there was death in the garden of Eden until Adam and Eve sinned.

Ok, but that seems to be your opinion. I don't see how scripture supports it... If you think that it was physical death instead of spiritual death (Gen 3:17-19 ), where does it say that the animal kingdom was affected too? That seems to be what you are implying, that both man and animals were affected. Gen 3:17-19 could also refer to spiritual death meaning that mankind would now have to labor and die by himself without being in the presence of God. As an example, mankind was always laboring on the earth. That is why God put man on the earth (Genesis 2:5). But in Gen 3:19 it states, "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food." Now suddenly Man has to work on earth for his food after the curse?

I didn't mean eggs were taken, I meant young ones. My point with the eggs are that dinosaurs started out very small. They were not these huge creatures from birth or hatching (however you say that). At what age are dinosaurs able to reproduce?

Not really sure. Are you insinuating that dinosaurs like T-Rex could reproduce, let's say, at 2 to 3 weeks old and still stay small?

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. "God made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is" This means that God made everything in that six days, not dinosaurs then they died out. Then he made everything else including man. If dinosaurs were extinct 65 million years ago, why are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? The Bible speaks of these in the present tense. Job 40:15-24 & 41. What are the ramifications if we were to find a living dinosaur now? I'm not saying we would but what would that mean? Anything?

As far as dinosaurs being mentioned in the Bible, I'll point you to the article Why aren't Dinosaurs Mentioned in the Biblical Creation Account?

[erawdrah]

Please look at the last line before the examples toward the middle bottom of the page "These discoveries improved the calibration for the radiocarbon technique and extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past"

Ok, so if these discoveries improved the calibration for the radiocarbon technique and extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past, how does this fit the 6,000 years theory?

It doesn't. I was just pointing out where I got 45,000 years instead of 60,000 years that you stated. But Libby did prove the world was less than 10,000 years old. He threw the data out because it didn't fit his presupposed idea. See next for that proof.

I see that I didn't finish my thought on this. Working and reading forums is never good, of course I can't do 2 things at once . The bigger point of radiometric carbon dating is equilibrium. According to Libby, C14 would reach equilibrium in the atmosphere in 30,000 years. The rate at which C14 was made would equal the rate at which it decays. He found that the rate of C14 creation was 20% higher than the decay. His findings were 78% less C14 than what he should've found. This showed a earth model that was less than 10,000 years. http://creation.com/carbon-14-dating-ex ... yday-terms . All of the radiometric dating has assumptions in them. C14 dating gives assumption that we know what the starting level of C14 was in the test subject. Potassium-Argon assumes consistent decay with no contamination. Did you know that a rock that sits in water will loose 80% of it's K40? How can you get a accurate reading? This is an excellent power point on radiometric dating. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/526704/Dati ... -and-Rocks It gives it to you in simple terms (which I need since I'm not a scientist) and with sources.

We've already agreed that radiometric carbon dating is not completely accurate. But the link you provided earlier stated that the calibration for the radiocarbon technique extended its usefulness to 45,000 years into the past. I'm really not understanding what you are advocating now.. Can you be more specific?

Libby proved the earth was less than 10,000 years old by C14 equilibrium. He called it an error because it didn't fit the idea that the earth was millions of years old. The saturation of C14 in the atmosphere is less than 10,000 years worth. In other words, the earth can't be older than 10,000 years. This would mean the earth has to be less than 10,000 years old. Definitely not old enough for dinosaurs to live 65 million years ago, but that the earth was less than 10,000. http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sci ... active.htm

Gen 2:17 is speaking of spiritual death, Gen 3:17-19 is speaking of physical death. I don't believe there was death in the garden of Eden until Adam and Eve sinned.

Ok, but that seems to be your opinion. I don't see how scripture supports it... If you think that it was physical death instead of spiritual death (Gen 3:17-19 ), where does it say that the animal kingdom was affected too? That seems to be what you are implying, that both man and animals were affected. Gen 3:17-19 could also refer to spiritual death meaning that mankind would now have to labor and die by himself without being in the presence of God. As an example, mankind was always laboring on the earth. That is why God put man on the earth (Genesis 2:5). But in Gen 3:19 it states, "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food." Now suddenly Man has to work on earth for his food after the curse?

I never said it was physical instead of spiritual. If you look you'll see that I quoted scripture for both. What is spiritual death and what is physical death? Is not spiritual death separation from God? God removed them from the garden after they sinned. They were separated. Then God says in Gen 3:19 that now they will return to the dust (physical death) I agree that Adam was the care taker of the garden and I don't believe that meant extremely hard work. But after they sinned the ground was cursed by God. How was it cursed you may ask. Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee Why was the ground cursed? For man's sake, is this to remind man of his fall or is it to keep man busy working?

I didn't mean eggs were taken, I meant young ones. My point with the eggs are that dinosaurs started out very small. They were not these huge creatures from birth or hatching (however you say that). At what age are dinosaurs able to reproduce?

Not really sure. Are you insinuating that dinosaurs like T-Rex could reproduce, let's say, at 2 to 3 weeks old and still stay small?

I'm saying if I were going to load an ark with animals why would I take a 60' brachiosaurus adult? I would take the small ones, just make sure you have a male and female. How fast did dinosaurs grow? Do you think the brachiosaurus grew to 60' in months, years, centuries? Young creatures would have a better chance of survival and have more off spring.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. "God made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is" This means that God made everything in that six days, not dinosaurs then they died out. Then he made everything else including man. If dinosaurs were extinct 65 million years ago, why are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? The Bible speaks of these in the present tense. Job 40:15-24 & 41. What are the ramifications if we were to find a living dinosaur now? I'm not saying we would but what would that mean? Anything?

As far as dinosaurs being mentioned in the Bible, I'll point you to the article Why aren't Dinosaurs Mentioned in the Biblical Creation Account?

Why weren't horses, pigs, parrots, or dogs mentioned? That article doesn't mention the dinosaurs in Job. Keep in mind that the term "dinosaur" was coined in 1842 by Sir Richard Owen. So I wouldn't expect the Bible to say dinosaur. If you read Job 40:15 God says to Job: "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox." Behold means look at, if behemoth was not real how could Job behold (look at) him? "Which I made with thee", does this mean God made behemoth when he created man? What about leviathan? Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? Job 41:2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? Why would God talk about these creatures if Job hadn't seen these creatures? In the article you linked it says "Therefore, in the creation account, we find the supernatural creation of the universe by God, indicating that the universe wasn't always here, but created by God for man. Next, it talks about the creation of plants, which are important to humans, since we eat them, and also important to the animals that we rely upon, which also eat them. Then, it talks about the sea creatures and birds, which we also eat. It next talks about the beasts of the field, which we eat and use for labor." When did man start eating animals and not just vegetation? Gen 1:29-30 These creatures were not for us to eat, they weren't even made to cloth us. The first time an animal was killed for clothing was when God killed it to cloth man because man was naked and knew it. Gen 3:21 We didn't eat flesh until after the flood. Gen 9:3 Do you think we used animals for labor in the garden of Eden? I do agree with the articles conclusion as far as it's really unimportant to list all of the creatures made but I strongly disagree with the statement "The purpose of the creation account is to provide an explanation of how God provided for mankind and created him as the one spiritual animal on earth." Spiritual animal? We are made in God's image, he never said anything else was made in his image. Man is not an animal. Some men act like animals and some men want you to think we came from animals. If we evolved from animals then we are nothing more than just animals. Are we animals or more than animals?

Please don't take anything I say personally, it's not directed at you. I value your opinion and your thoughts. I hope I didn't get too mean in my replies. Thanks for your time.

[zoegirl]

For an exhaustive explanation on the myriad dating techniques and their accuracies, see http://www.asa3.org/ASA/RESOURCES/WIENS.html#page%2019

[Gman]

It doesn't. I was just pointing out where I got 45,000 years instead of 60,000 years that you stated. But Libby did prove the world was less than 10,000 years old. He threw the data out because it didn't fit his presupposed idea. See next for that proof.

Then why did you post a Wikipedia article that extended its usefulness to 45,000/60,000 years into the past?

Libby proved the earth was less than 10,000 years old by C14 equilibrium. He called it an error because it didn't fit the idea that the earth was millions of years old. The saturation of C14 in the atmosphere is less than 10,000 years worth. In other words, the earth can't be older than 10,000 years. This would mean the earth has to be less than 10,000 years old. Definitely not old enough for dinosaurs to live 65 million years ago, but that the earth was less than 10,000. http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sci ... active.htm

But knowing both the half-life of a radioactive isotope and the ratio of radioactive to stable isotope in a fossil enables us to tell the age of the fossil. As I said, Carbon -14 is useful for dating relatively young fossils (up to about 60,000 years old according to your Wikipedia source), not older ones. Radioactive isotopes with longer half lives are used to date older fossils. There are indirect ways to estimate the age of much older fossils. For example, potassium-40, with a half-life of 1.3 billion years, can be used to date volcanic rocks hundreds of millions of years old. A fossil's age can be inferred from the ages of the rock layers above and below the strata in which the fossil is found. By dating rocks and fossils, scientists have established a geologic record of Earth's history. Estimate the age of a fossil found in a sedimentary rock layer between two layers of volcanic rock that are determined to be 530 and 520 million years old. This is essentially how you are going to get your older dates.

I never said it was physical instead of spiritual. If you look you'll see that I quoted scripture for both. What is spiritual death and what is physical death? Is not spiritual death separation from God? God removed them from the garden after they sinned.

So you are admitting it is both physical and spiritual? Also I noticed you didn't included the animal kingdom being affected here as well..

They were separated. Then God says in Gen 3:19 that now they will return to the dust (physical death) I agree that Adam was the care taker of the garden and I don't believe that meant extremely hard work. But after they sinned the ground was cursed by God. How was it cursed you may ask. Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee Why was the ground cursed? For man's sake, is this to remind man of his fall or is it to keep man busy working?

So you don't think that stewardship (working the land) was busy work before the fall? How so? If God is going to start creating thorns and thistles, then his work of creating plants on day 3 was not finished.. This would be a contradiction of scripture. Also the Hebrew word "adamah" is not most commonly translated "ground," the most common translation is the word "land." More on that here..

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis3.html

I'm saying if I were going to load an ark with animals why would I take a 60' brachiosaurus adult? I would take the small ones, just make sure you have a male and female. How fast did dinosaurs grow? Do you think the brachiosaurus grew to 60' in months, years, centuries? Young creatures would have a better chance of survival and have more off spring.

The Bible tells us that it was the male and "his" female. Genesis 7:2 seems to be saying that the males had mates. This implies that that they were older. But let's say they are small adults. Did you know that a number of animals reach maturity (size) in the matter of a few months? How does this work out if they were left on the ark for 150 days? (about 5 months)

And how are we going to get these large numbers of animals to fit into the ark..? This is a copy and paste from another section..

Quote: "Robert D. Barnes lists the number of living species for each phylum, ranging from the sole member of Placozoa to the 923,000 in Arthropoda (pp. 12, 85-88). Using his figures, we arrive at a total of 1,177,920 species.

In addition, there are many animals that are as yet unknown.

All of those creatures were known at one time, for Adam gave them all names (Genesis 2:19-20), and, since they exist today, they must have been on the ark. But we shall be extremely generous to the YEC creationists and add only 500,000 undiscovered species to our figure of 1,177,920—thus giving a mere 1,677,920 species with which Noah had to contend.

Of course, we can't forget that Genesis 7:2-3 (particularly in the Revised Standard Version) makes it clear that only unclean animals come in single pairs, male and female; the clean animals and birds come in seven pairs, male and female. That means fourteen of each clean animal and each bird. But since figures for the number of clean animals are hard to find, we will have to let creationists off the hook and ignore them. Birds are another story. There are 8,590 species of birds. Since they have already been calculated into our figure of 1,877,920 species or 3,755,840 individual animals on the ark, we need only six more pairs of each species of bird to make it come out to seven pairs. That brings our count up to a grand total of 3,858,920 animals aboard the ark—two of each species, except birds which number fourteen each."

Source: http://ncseweb.org/cej/4/1/impossible-v ... %20Animals

In fact when you look at a ship such as the Titanic (882 feet long by 92 feet wide), it was nearly twice the size of Noah's ark (450 feet long by 75 feet wide) but only had the capacity of about 3,547 persons. Yet we are told that Noah could fit all the animals into his ark thought out the whole world (around some 3,858,920 animals) including about a years supply of food to feed them. I wonder how on earth this could ever be accomplished...

On top of this you are claiming that dinosaurs were also put on the ark as well which brings up the total even more...Often I hear that it is a problem to feed all these animals, but also what are all these animals going to drink? The global floodwaters would have been infested with salt and other harmful minerals from the ocean bottom.

Why weren't horses, pigs, parrots, or dogs mentioned? That article doesn't mention the dinosaurs in Job.

Please read the article again... He talks about the Leviathan in Job.

Next, it talks about the creation of plants, which are important to humans, since we eat them, and also important to the animals that we rely upon, which also eat them. Then, it talks about the sea creatures and birds, which we also eat. It next talks about the beasts of the field, which we eat and use for labor." When did man start eating animals and not just vegetation? Gen 1:29-30 These creatures were not for us to eat, they weren't even made to cloth us. The first time an animal was killed for clothing was when God killed it to cloth man because man was naked and knew it. Gen 3:21 We didn't eat flesh until after the flood.

Man and animals ultimately live on plants.. So what is the problem with Gen 1:29-30? Without plant life we would all be dead since it is our main food source. Sometimes however, we don't eat plants but kill other animals that do eat plants.. The cow eats the grass and the lion eats the cow... With no grass there is no cow or lion...

I do agree with the articles conclusion as far as it's really unimportant to list all of the creatures made but I strongly disagree with the statement "The purpose of the creation account is to provide an explanation of how God provided for mankind and created him as the one spiritual animal on earth." Spiritual animal? We are made in God's image, he never said anything else was made in his image. Man is not an animal. Some men act like animals and some men want you to think we came from animals. If we evolved from animals then we are nothing more than just animals. Are we animals or more than animals?

Man is a type of animal, in the animal family, but we are far from animals (made in the image of God). We did not evolve from them if that is what you mean..

Please don't take anything I say personally, it's not directed at you. I value your opinion and your thoughts. I hope I didn't get too mean in my replies. Thanks for your time.

I haven't.. Have you? To be honest nothing you supplied here hasn't been already addressed here on this forum. It's nothing new..

[erawdrah]

For an exhaustive explanation on the myriad dating techniques and their accuracies, see http://www.asa3.org/ASA/RESOURCES/WIENS.html#page%2019

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating.html
http://tasc-creationscience.org/other/p ... ting2.html

[zoegirl]

My source is an exhaustive review, it atually addresses all of those supposedly pesky problems that your souces brings up.


Of course, carbon datingis siy on in a myriad of methods that have validated the results

http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth ... verse.html