Noah's Ark

[WConn]

I have read that the 1:6 ratio of Noah's Ark as directed by God to be build is actually the best known ratio by current naval architect standards for an ocean going vessel. This is amazing and I would have to think that a writer thousands of years ago could not even by chance make that up on a guess. Such things are what make me feel that there is
great truth to at least some of the writings in the bible. Again, I am one who wishes to know the unvarnished truth and will continue to ask and investigate until I think I have found it.

Can someone verify this or did I stumble upon a web site making an unfounded declaration?

[Gman]

I have read that the 1:6 ratio of Noah's Ark as directed by God to be build is actually the best known ratio by current naval architect standards for an ocean going vessel. This is amazing and I would have to think that a writer thousands of years ago could not even by chance make that up on a guess. Such things are what make me feel that there is
great truth to at least some of the writings in the bible. Again, I am one who wishes to know the unvarnished truth and will continue to ask and investigate until I think I have found it.

Can someone verify this or did I stumble upon a web site making an unfounded declaration?

WConn, I'm not sure if I understand the question, could you rephrase it?

Thanks..

[WConn]

Gman,

I have read somewhere that the ratio of the ark, I believe they are talking length to width was 1:6. I understand that the science of naval architecture has determined that
a 1:6 ratio is the best ratio for an ocean going vessel/barge. My point is that it would be unlikely that someone writing a few thousand years ago would be versed in naval architecture. That being said, it would be amazing that the dimensions of the Ark as described by God to Noah would conform to current scientific standards by chance along.
My question is: Is this information correct:? Did I stumble upon a web site full of wishful thinkers? I don't know but I do know there is a lot of doo doo available online/on the web. Please let me know if this is your understanding. If it is, WOW, that's the kind of stuff that makes me believe.......

My background is not in engineering or naval design, but I have a background in science and medicine. Looking for some feedback from those who know more about this than I.

W

[Gman]

Gman,My question is: Is this information correct:? Did I stumble upon a web site full of wishful thinkers? I don't know but I do know there is a lot of doo doo available online/on the web. Please let me know if this is your understanding. If it is, WOW, that's the kind of stuff that makes me believe.......

My background is not in engineering or naval design, but I have a background in science and medicine. Looking for some feedback from those who know more about this than I.

W

WConn, to be honest with you I don't really know.. It is possible I guess.. Part of what makes me believe is the fact that I can breath. I don't believe that chance was my God for this little miracle..

[WConn]

Gman,My question is: Is this information correct:? Did I stumble upon a web site full of wishful thinkers? I don't know but I do know there is a lot of doo doo available online/on the web. Please let me know if this is your understanding. If it is, WOW, that's the kind of stuff that makes me believe.......

My background is not in engineering or naval design, but I have a background in science and medicine. Looking for some feedback from those who know more about this than I.

W

WConn, to be honest with you I don't really know.. It is possible I guess.. Part of what makes me believe is the fact that I can breath. I don't believe that chance was my God for this little miracle..

Gman,

I am one of those who asks questions and needs answers. IF the information I read regarding the ratio 1:6 ratio of Noah's ark being in agreement with current naval architecture which states that a 1:6 ratio is the most stable ratio for an ocean going vessel/barge, then I am more than impressed. Other than divine inspiration and knowledge, there is no way I could imagine that a man thousands of years ago who most likely had never seen an ocean going vessel could by chance come up with those dimensions.

I am reading the bible and trying to come to a conclusion as to if I believe this book is the word of god or not. It's difficult for someone like me to take for granted that men long ago were inspired by god to write these books. It's even more difficult to accept that a council of men got together to decide which writings were divinely inspired and which were not.

I will continue to read and try to learn and understand.

Thank you,

W

[cslewislover]

Was this the site you saw? It refers to the ratio. http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html

I tried to google the 1:6 ratio for ship design, and didn't get very far. I did find one boat design forum that mentioned it, but it is not the only ratio to consider. The sites that are putting this information out there should give a reference. Maybe you could contact them and get their reference.

[Gman]

Gman,

I am one of those who asks questions and needs answers. IF the information I read regarding the ratio 1:6 ratio of Noah's ark being in agreement with current naval architecture which states that a 1:6 ratio is the most stable ratio for an ocean going vessel/barge, then I am more than impressed. Other than divine inspiration and knowledge, there is no way I could imagine that a man thousands of years ago who most likely had never seen an ocean going vessel could by chance come up with those dimensions.

I am reading the bible and trying to come to a conclusion as to if I believe this book is the word of god or not. It's difficult for someone like me to take for granted that men long ago were inspired by god to write these books. It's even more difficult to accept that a council of men got together to decide which writings were divinely inspired and which were not.

I will continue to read and try to learn and understand.

Thank you,

W

Everyone has questions.. Even I still have questions. What if the Bible didn't have all the answers to your questions or address the issues you need? Do we throw the baby out with the bath water?

[WConn]

[/quote]

Everyone has questions.. Even I still have questions. What if the Bible didn't have all the answers to your questions or address the issues you need? Do we throw the baby out with the bath water?[/quote]

Certainly not! I was once told thought that the Bible had all the answers to the questions of life. I don't think this is true but apparently my questions will require a bit more indepth analysis on my part to get a handle on the answers.

Thank you Gman,

W

[WConn]

Was this the site you saw? It refers to the ratio. http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html

I tried to google the 1:6 ratio for ship design, and didn't get very far. I did find one boat design forum that mentioned it, but it is not the only ratio to consider. The sites that are putting this information out there should give a reference. Maybe you could contact them and get their reference.

CSLewislover,

Yes V, this is one site I found and I have seen this in other sites. This is the paragraph which causes me pause.

"The ark was built on a 1:6 ratio (50 cubits:300 cubits). The science of naval architecture reveals that the most stable ratio for an ocean going vessel is 1:6. All modern day ocean going vessels use this same length to width ratio. It is estimated that the ark could easily have survived even the largest of ocean waves. If the ark were equipped with a dragging stone anchor, it would have been properly positioned to meet any size ocean wave. The design of the ark would have made it almost impossible to turn over."

As I said, it's improbably that someone writing thousands of years ago would have known or guessed that such a ratio would be as stated. That's a "wow" moment for me if ya know what I mean. I would like to confirm this with someone who knows.

W

[jlay]

Yes, everyone has questions.

The question then becomes, at what level does the information demand a verdict?
Can we simply educate ourselves into the Kingdom of God? Is Christianity an intellectual assent? Certainly there is a knowledge that makes us wise for salvation. (2 Tim 3:15) But this knowledge is within the scriptures.

I don't have every answer. I had even less before I became a Christ follower. So, why did I become a Christian? Many of the questions that Wconn is asking, I have also asked. But, i asked them on this side of belief. In fact I often have new questions arrise. Some are tough. But, do I stop being a Christian until they are answered? No. Because my faith is not based on arguments. My faith is based on spiritual proofs.

Should we be prepared and ready to answer questions? I think so. But we should also be ready to demonstrate the reason for the hope we have. My hope is not in the fact that I have a satisfactory answer regarding the Coucil of Nicea. I am glad there are good answers regarding the authority and reliability of scripture. But that is not where my hope lies. I have studied many apologetics since becoming a beleiver, many of which have strengthed my faith. I am greatful for these. But, are they my hope? No.

I read the argument (I think someone posted it here) that provided a case that Napoleon never existed. Of course it was a tongue-n-cheek thing. But it does get you thinking. There is absolutely nothing that we can know for certain about the past. We have to rely on historical evidence. However, with the Bible there is something unique that sets it apart from other historical documents. Many of us here have experienced the Word of God personally and spiritually in our own lives. Many of us have found our lives exsposed under the Word of God, and thus have had a revelation through the Word that has literally transformed our lives. We can testify to these things, but we can not box them up for a skeptic to neatly unwrap and thus possess the truth. If one is determined in their own mind that they can not accept the bible unless they can travel back in time, witness the council of Nicea and interview James, John, Peter, Luke and Paul, then their case is hopeless. Because that is not the hope of the Bible. There are many good arguments for the reliability of scripture. But for Christians all over the world, it is their spiritual encounter with the Word/truth that has forever changed their lives.

So, 2 Timothy 3:15 says, "you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." Obviously if, for whatever reason, we choose to doubt these scriptures and remain in unbeleif, then we can not obtain this salvation. That doesn't mean we will not have questions, confusions, etc. But it does signify the importance of scriptural authority. Wconn, please don't miscontrue this question. I am not asking you to play intellectual suicide here. But, have you given any thought to what the implications would be to your own personal life, IF the scriptures are true? In other words, if the Bible is true, and God is who He says He is, then what effect does this have on you personally? What is at stake?

[WConn]

Yes, everyone has questions.

The question then becomes, at what level does the information demand a verdict?
Can we simply educate ourselves into the Kingdom of God? Is Christianity an intellectual assent? Certainly there is a knowledge that makes us wise for salvation. (2 Tim 3:15) But this knowledge is within the scriptures.

I don't have every answer. I had even less before I became a Christ follower. So, why did I become a Christian? Many of the questions that Wconn is asking, I have also asked. But, i asked them on this side of belief. In fact I often have new questions arrise. Some are tough. But, do I stop being a Christian until they are answered? No. Because my faith is not based on arguments. My faith is based on spiritual proofs.

Should we be prepared and ready to answer questions? I think so. But we should also be ready to demonstrate the reason for the hope we have. My hope is not in the fact that I have a satisfactory answer regarding the Coucil of Nicea. I am glad there are good answers regarding the authority and reliability of scripture. But that is not where my hope lies. I have studied many apologetics since becoming a beleiver, many of which have strengthed my faith. I am greatful for these. But, are they my hope? No.

I read the argument (I think someone posted it here) that provided a case that Napoleon never existed. Of course it was a tongue-n-cheek thing. But it does get you thinking. There is absolutely nothing that we can know for certain about the past. We have to rely on historical evidence. However, with the Bible there is something unique that sets it apart from other historical documents. Many of us here have experienced the Word of God personally and spiritually in our own lives. Many of us have found our lives exsposed under the Word of God, and thus have had a revelation through the Word that has literally transformed our lives. We can testify to these things, but we can not box them up for a skeptic to neatly unwrap and thus possess the truth. If one is determined in their own mind that they can not accept the bible unless they can travel back in time, witness the council of Nicea and interview James, John, Peter, Luke and Paul, then their case is hopeless. Because that is not the hope of the Bible. There are many good arguments for the reliability of scripture. But for Christians all over the world, it is their spiritual encounter with the Word/truth that has forever changed their lives.

So, 2 Timothy 3:15 says, "you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." Obviously if, for whatever reason, we choose to doubt these scriptures and remain in unbeleif, then we can not obtain this salvation. That doesn't mean we will not have questions, confusions, etc. But it does signify the importance of scriptural authority. Wconn, please don't miscontrue this question. I am not asking you to play intellectual suicide here. But, have you given any thought to what the implications would be to your own personal life, IF the scriptures are true? In other words, if the Bible is true, and God is who He says He is, then what effect does this have on you personally? What is at stake?

Jlay,

I have given thought to exactly what you suggest. IF the scriptures are true, the effect on me personally and on EVERYONE personally is beyond description. It is for this reason that I am reading, studying and asking questions.

I think I pointed out that my question about Noah's Ark held some awesome potential. If the 1:6 ratio which is expressed in the dimensions God gave to Noah to build the ark is truly the best known ratio for an ocean going vessel by todays naval designers, how awesome is that? It would be almost impossible for someone thousands of years ago to have gotten that right by chance and divine knowledge would be the only way something like that could have occurred.

My questions are an attempt to learn and understand. Some here choose to answer the questions, apparently others choose to judge me based on my questions. Am I wrong?

Thank you for your input,

W

[Gman]

Certainly not! I was once told thought that the Bible had all the answers to the questions of life. I don't think this is true but apparently my questions will require a bit more indepth analysis on my part to get a handle on the answers.

Thank you Gman,

W

No problem, I understand what you are saying.. And I know that we as Christians should be ready to provide answers. But I don't think we as mere mortals will ever have all the answers.. Even if we use the Bible. For me the Bible simply provides a framework for what I can base my beliefs. I don't think the Bible was built to provide all the answers humans can muster up. But the framework is there and I can base my beliefs on that.

In hindsight, I think that there are also many mysteries in the Bible. Certain things that will be revealed later.. And that's all fine.. Actually I kind of like mysteries myself.. No one wants to be a know it all. Who would want to marry a computer anyway? Spouting facts and figures, who cares? Like how many angels can you get to dance on a pen? I don't know, 20? 30? I mean is this important to know? Trivia? I think we need to focus on the bigger issues. Issues like salvation and my walk with God are very important. Now I'm not trying to demean trivia or certain facts, but I think we need to establish limits on how far facts can go too.. Facts can change too so let's not get to hung up on it all..

Ultimately I think God holds all the answers and it is up to God when certain answers will be revealed... Until then, I may have to wait..

Just a thought..

[Jac3510]

W, to answer your question -- without getting out a textbook on ship design, let's just do a quick comparison of modern ships:

The USS John McCain:
Length: 505 ft (154 m)
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)

The USS Fitzgerald:
Length: 505 ft (154 m)
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)

The USS Stockdale
Length: 509 ft 6 in (155.3 m)[2]
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)[2]

The USS Abraham Lincoln
Length: Overall: 1,092 feet (332.8 m)
Waterline: 1,040 feet (317.0 m)
Beam: Overall: 252 ft (76.8 m)
Waterline: 134 ft (40.8 m)

The USS Antietam
Length: 567 feet (173 m)
Beam: 55 feet (17 m)

The USS Anzio
Length: 567 feet (173 m)
Beam: 55 feet (17 m)

These all seem to have a ratio of about 1:7. You can do more comparisons yourself by checking the list of ships here and then looking up their dimensions on Wikipedia.

For comparison, Wikipedia tells us that "a typical barge measures 195 feet by 35 feet (59.4 m by 10.6 m), and can carry up to 1,500 tons of cargo." That's a 1:5.7 ratio. Certainly, Noah's ark would have been a bit more like a barge than a battle ship!

Finally, a comparison to ancient Egyptian ships:

"The first dynasty boats found at Abydos were about 25 metres long, two to three metres wide and about sixty centimetres deep, seating 30 rowers." (source) - that's between 1:8 and 1:12

"I went down on the sea in a ship of one hundred and fifty cubits long and forty cubits wide, with one hundred and fifty sailors of the best of Egypt who had seen heaven and earth, and whose hearts were stronger than lions." ~ Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor, c. 2200 BCE (source) - that's 1:3.75

SO: How big is the difference in 1:6 to 1:7? Not sure, but it's obviously pretty close. The average modern barge is much closer--1:5.7; further, recognizing that a "cubit" wasn't an exact measurement, we have to be allowed to fudge the biblical 1:6 a little bit in either direction. Finally, the few ancient ships I looked at didn't fit the modern ratios nearly as well as Noah's does. Overall, I think it's pretty impressive, don't you?

[WConn]

W, to answer your question -- without getting out a textbook on ship design, let's just do a quick comparison of modern ships:

The USS John McCain:
Length: 505 ft (154 m)
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)

The USS Fitzgerald:
Length: 505 ft (154 m)
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)

The USS Stockdale
Length: 509 ft 6 in (155.3 m)[2]
Beam: 66 ft (20 m)[2]

The USS Abraham Lincoln
Length: Overall: 1,092 feet (332.8 m)
Waterline: 1,040 feet (317.0 m)
Beam: Overall: 252 ft (76.8 m)
Waterline: 134 ft (40.8 m)

The USS Antietam
Length: 567 feet (173 m)
Beam: 55 feet (17 m)

The USS Anzio
Length: 567 feet (173 m)
Beam: 55 feet (17 m)

These all seem to have a ratio of about 1:7. You can do more comparisons yourself by checking the list of ships here and then looking up their dimensions on Wikipedia.

For comparison, Wikipedia tells us that "a typical barge measures 195 feet by 35 feet (59.4 m by 10.6 m), and can carry up to 1,500 tons of cargo." That's a 1:5.7 ratio. Certainly, Noah's ark would have been a bit more like a barge than a battle ship!

Finally, a comparison to ancient Egyptian ships:

"The first dynasty boats found at Abydos were about 25 metres long, two to three metres wide and about sixty centimetres deep, seating 30 rowers." (source) - that's between 1:8 and 1:12

"I went down on the sea in a ship of one hundred and fifty cubits long and forty cubits wide, with one hundred and fifty sailors of the best of Egypt who had seen heaven and earth, and whose hearts were stronger than lions." ~ Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor, c. 2200 BCE (source) - that's 1:3.75

SO: How big is the difference in 1:6 to 1:7? Not sure, but it's obviously pretty close. The average modern barge is much closer--1:5.7; further, recognizing that a "cubit" wasn't an exact measurement, we have to be allowed to fudge the biblical 1:6 a little bit in either direction. Finally, the few ancient ships I looked at didn't fit the modern ratios nearly as well as Noah's does. Overall, I think it's pretty impressive, don't you?

My point exactly. I took a cruise awhile back and this was a very large, ocean going cruise ship. My rough calculation reading the dimensions of the ship in my room came to close to 1:6. Yes, very impressive. Again, how could a writer, thousands of years ago come up with such dimensions on their own? These are the things which lead me to believe in Divine Inspiration. I am just a very questioning guy looking for the truth, but this is something which really juices me.

W

[jlay]

My questions are an attempt to learn and understand. Some here choose to answer the questions, apparently others choose to judge me based on my questions. Am I wrong?

I can only speak for myself, not others here. I hope you get the answers to all your questions. There is nothing wrong with examining the question to see the motive behind. There is a saying, that you will never get the right answers unless you ask the right questions. Not saying your questions are wrong. But if we never get around to asking the most important question/s then what?

Sounds like Jac has provided some sound evidence that the Ark was in proportion to the modern scale of a barge.

Jlay,

I have given thought to exactly what you suggest. IF the scriptures are true, the effect on me personally and on EVERYONE personally is beyond description. It is for this reason that I am reading, studying and asking questions.

Let's talk about the things we can describe. If the scriptures are true then what does this say about God? Who is He, what is His character. How does God see you? What is your spiritual condition?