History International Channel

[WConn]

For those of us who have cable, this Saturday there will be a program on Biblical Battles. (check your program guide for times.) It appears there will be some depictions of Old Testament battles. I find these kind of things somewhat interesting although we must be mindful of the poetic license and Hollywood influence that can permeate such undertakings. Reading the OT wars was somewhat disturbing to me, perhaps the video will be less so?

W

[Gman]

For those of us who have cable, this Saturday there will be a program on Biblical Battles. (check your program guide for times.) It appears there will be some depictions of Old Testament battles. I find these kind of things somewhat interesting although we must be mindful of the poetic license and Hollywood influence that can permeate such undertakings. Reading the OT wars was somewhat disturbing to me, perhaps the video will be less so?

W

Yes I've seen it.. Of course Hollywood has glamorized it, but it did happen in the Bible. And it's pretty bloody. But then again the world we live in is bloody too. Take WW II as an example, the U.S. was commissioned to bomb cities within Germany to stop their aggression. Not only military strongholds, but entire cities. Or Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombed by the U.S. destroying entire cities killing both women and children. Was it just or unjust?

Before we say that those wars were wrong in the Bible, we have to be careful on how we view war. War IS bad, but sometimes war is forced upon us whether we choose it or not. It is bloody, but sometimes necessary to stop the aggression. If we do nothing, should we take away guns from our police force too? They are guilty as well then...

The Bible is also very clear that God hates to see the death of anyone.. So too should be our attitude towards it but sometimes we can't escape it.

Ezekiel 33:11

"Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?"

[WConn]

Yes I've seen it.. Of course Hollywood has glamorized it, but it did happen in the Bible. And it's pretty bloody. But then again the world we live in is bloody too. Take WW II as an example, the U.S. was commissioned to bomb cities within Germany to stop their aggression. Not only military strongholds, but entire cities. Or Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombed by the U.S. destroying entire cities killing both women and children. Was it just or unjust?

Before we say that those wars were wrong in the Bible, we have to be careful on how we view war. War IS bad, but sometimes war is forced upon us whether we choose it or not. It is bloody, but sometimes necessary to stop the aggression. If we do nothing, should we take away guns from our police force too? They are guilty as well then...

The Bible is also very clear that God hates to see the death of anyone.. So too should be our attitude towards it but sometimes we can't escape it.

Ezekiel 33:11

"Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?"

Interesting points abut WW2 re bombing of civilian areas. Yes that happened and there is little question that civilians were killed in both Germany and Japan. Different times and different approaches to the problem in those days. I can tell you from experience that Vietnam was a different story. USAF and USN air to ground attacks were strictly forbidden to needlessly endanger civilian areas, living, medical, religious or otherwise. This necessitated the bombing approaches in many cases to be strictly limited. The North Vietnamese knew this and stationed the Sams and AAA on those approaches which greatly endangered our aircrews. The North Vietnamese didn't hesitate for a moment to stage in areas which would inhibit us from attacking. Nothing like having civilians, churches, schools and hospitals right on top of military environment to slow the potential of destruction.

W

[Gman]

Interesting points abut WW2 re bombing of civilian areas. Yes that happened and there is little question that civilians were killed in both Germany and Japan. Different times and different approaches to the problem in those days. I can tell you from experience that Vietnam was a different story. USAF and USN air to ground attacks were strictly forbidden to needlessly endanger civilian areas, living, medical, religious or otherwise. This necessitated the bombing approaches in many cases to be strictly limited. The North Vietnamese knew this and stationed the Sams and AAA on those approaches which greatly endangered our aircrews. The North Vietnamese didn't hesitate for a moment to stage in areas which would inhibit us from attacking. Nothing like having civilians, churches, schools and hospitals right on top of military environment to slow the potential of destruction.

W

Well, it's still happening today too. According to the record, civilian deaths equaled more than 2,000 Afghans were killed last year alone (2008).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/world ... fghan.html

And our police target children too. There are cases where children pick up guns and shoot at the innocent. What are the cops to do? In many cases they have to shoot back. It's just the way it is..

Just a thought...

[WConn]

Not sure our police TARGET children Gman. Children may on occasion force the hand of a cop, but I don't think they TARGET children. It appears you are opposed to war.....can't say that I disagree with you, especially having been to war myself. This is an interesting quote from long ago:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

Wish we didn't have to go to war, but the OT was full of war and violence at God's direction, was it not? We have not come very far since then it would appear.

Walt

[Gman]

Not sure our police TARGET children Gman. Children may on occasion force the hand of a cop, but I don't think they TARGET children. It appears you are opposed to war.....can't say that I disagree with you, especially having been to war myself. This is an interesting quote from long ago:

Walt, I would disagree with that. Technically they shouldn't target anyone. Police, however, will target anything if they felt it was life threatening to others. As an example the Columbine incident. Police came with rifles to stop the violence. They would have shot them if they had the chance. The have to... Police have to protect the innocent even if they happen to be children.. Sometimes they are forced into these situations.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

Wish we didn't have to go to war, but the OT was full of war and violence at God's direction, was it not? We have not come very far since then it would appear.

Walt

Yes there was war in the OT at God's direction, but not always, and not after many many warnings, (sometimes taking up to 200 years of warnings). Also wars in the OT were defensive in nature, not offensive.

Again, I would stress that there are just wars (like WWII). Have we not come far from the OT days. Wherever you find sin you will find wars.. It's human nature unfortunately as we see even today...

[WConn]

[quote="Gman"][quote="WConn"]Not sure our police TARGET children Gman.

Walt, I would disagree with that. Technically they shouldn't target anyone. Police, however, will target anything if they felt it was life threatening to others. As an example the Columbine incident. Police came with rifles to stop the violence. They would have shot them if they had the chance. The have to... Police have to protect the innocent even if they happen to be children.. Sometimes they are forced into these situations.

Gman, the cops were not targeting CHILDREN, they were targeting criminals. IN the Columbine case they had no choice but to respond in the way they did, and in many opinions they responded too timidly. Many people died but they had to know who they were dealing with and couldn't not over react and kill innocents themselves. I feel you are unjustly criminalizing the police. They have a tough job and they put their lives on the line everyday.

Walt

[ageofknowledge]

Not sure our police TARGET children Gman.

Walt, I would disagree with that. Technically they shouldn't target anyone. Police, however, will target anything if they felt it was life threatening to others. As an example the Columbine incident. Police came with rifles to stop the violence. They would have shot them if they had the chance. The have to... Police have to protect the innocent even if they happen to be children.. Sometimes they are forced into these situations.

Gman, the cops were not targeting CHILDREN, they were targeting criminals. IN the Columbine case they had no choice but to respond in the way they did, and in many opinions they responded too timidly. Many people died but they had to know who they were dealing with and couldn't not over react and kill innocents themselves. I feel you are unjustly criminalizing the police. They have a tough job and they put their lives on the line everyday.

Walt

It is a tough job and most police I've met are stable and believe in their mission. That said, I have met those that were corrupt and those just in it for the money and the power in my lifetime. They were nested in with the good ones that covered for them. They don't call it the Blue Code of Silence for no reason.

[Gman]

Gman, the cops were not targeting CHILDREN, they were targeting criminals. IN the Columbine case they had no choice but to respond in the way they did, and in many opinions they responded too timidly. Many people died but they had to know who they were dealing with and couldn't not over react and kill innocents themselves. I feel you are unjustly criminalizing the police. They have a tough job and they put their lives on the line everyday.

Walt

?? You lost me here Walt... They were targeting criminals that just happened to be children. Nonetheless they were children..

[WConn]

Gman, the cops were not targeting CHILDREN, they were targeting criminals. IN the Columbine case they had no choice but to respond in the way they did, and in many opinions they responded too timidly. Many people died but they had to know who they were dealing with and couldn't not over react and kill innocents themselves. I feel you are unjustly criminalizing the police. They have a tough job and they put their lives on the line everyday.

Walt

?? You lost me here Walt... They were targeting criminals that just happened to be children. Nonetheless they were children..

Gman, YOU have lost ME! Yes the killers at Columbine were children although they were older teens in reality, in my eyes not children still. But what do you mean that the police TARGETED them? They were killing people Gman, KILLING PEOPLE. What would you have had the police do? Say, "Oh they're just kids so let them have their fun." I think Police SHOULD target certain types of people, although our constitution usually prohibits them from doing so. They should target known criminals, mafia, gangs and the like. Is that wrong? I think NOT. I don't understand where the disconnect is here between the two of us.

BTW, I missed the program which I mentioned to start this thread, I feel asleep. I need sleep more than watching TV. Hope they repeat it sometime.

Walt