Question on forgiveness:

[jlay]

Maybe you could weigh in on my question about Day Age Progressive Creationists?

Walt,
Blunt question. What does that have to do with the claims of "why" we need a Savior?

Could it be that you are creating a fog with many of these questions, and perhaps missing the crux of the matter?

[WConn]

Maybe you could weigh in on my question about Day Age Progressive Creationists?

Walt,
Blunt question. What does that have to do with the claims of "why" we need a Savior?

Could it be that you are creating a fog with many of these questions, and perhaps missing the crux of the matter?

Jlay, I think you lost me here. Your blunt question of what does that (my question about day age progressive creationists) have to do with the claims of "why" we need a Savior? ?????
I'm not trying to create a fog or anything else for that matter. I am asking questions looking for answers. Am I not progressing fast enough to suit you? This has been my problem with religion all along. I was simply asking Zoegirl to take a look at my post re Day Age Progressive Creationists. I noted that she was one herself and perhaps she could make a comment or two on my question.

In another life, I was a flight instructor. Getting angry or sarcastic with a student who was not progressing as quickly as another is never a good thing. I didn't do it but I knew instructors who did, often their students transferred over to me because they were displeased with their other instructor. I get the feeling that this is what you are doing. Am I wrong? I HOPE SO.

W

[zoegirl]

let me know if ther eis anything we can do to explain it

Maybe you could weigh in on my question about Day Age Progressive Creationists?

Walt

I will try to get to it....it is the start of school this week and Im a bit harried...!!!

[jlay]

W,

Number one, I am not angry. Numbedr two, I am not being sarcastic. I am asking you a blunt question, thus why I phrased it. Getting defensive everytime someone challenges you, or your method of thinking, is not, a "good thing." (there is sarcasm)

Being a flight instructor, I'm sure you had occassions where people thought they were on course, but were not? If their life was in danger would you warn them, or just let them be because you were afraid you might upset them?

You have made it very clear, that the more you read the more confused you become. Your words, not mine. I am suggesting that there may be another reason for your confusion that you have yet to consider. Clutter. If things are cluttered, don't add to the clutter.

It is clear that many can have a saving faith, and not agree on the specifics of how old, how long, etc. etc. In fact, I can't see that the ultimate question of where one will spend eternity has a thing to do with it. There is a saying in the bible about straining a gnat and swallowing a camel. All I am saying is that at this point, that kind of stuff is clutter to keep you from the real question of why you need a savior. Since this thread is on forgiveness and the hypocrisy you witnessed in a friend, I'd be happy to address those things with you. If not, that is fine.

[zoegirl]

It seems that, looking back at the threads, he was just taking the opportunity to ask me to see another thread. At least, that was my take on it. Not that he was trying to see how the age of hte universe affected salvation. But Walt can certianly clarify this.

[jlay]

I see it that way was well Zoe. That wasn't the drive behind my line of questioning.

[WConn]

It seems that, looking back at the threads, he was just taking the opportunity to ask me to see another thread. At least, that was my take on it. Not that he was trying to see how the age of hte universe affected salvation. But Walt can certianly clarify this.

That is correct Zoegirl. And I understand that the start of the school year is a time consuming experience for most teachers.

Thank you.

Walt

[WConn]

W,

Number one, I am not angry. Numbedr two, I am not being sarcastic. I am asking you a blunt question, thus why I phrased it. Getting defensive everytime someone challenges you, or your method of thinking, is not, a "good thing." (there is sarcasm)

Being a flight instructor, I'm sure you had occassions where people thought they were on course, but were not? If their life was in danger would you warn them, or just let them be because you were afraid you might upset them?

You have made it very clear, that the more you read the more confused you become. Your words, not mine. I am suggesting that there may be another reason for your confusion that you have yet to consider. Clutter. If things are cluttered, don't add to the clutter.

It is clear that many can have a saving faith, and not agree on the specifics of how old, how long, etc. etc. In fact, I can't see that the ultimate question of where one will spend eternity has a thing to do with it. There is a saying in the bible about straining a gnat and swallowing a camel. All I am saying is that at this point, that kind of stuff is clutter to keep you from the real question of why you need a savior. Since this thread is on forgiveness and the hypocrisy you witnessed in a friend, I'd be happy to address those things with you. If not, that is fine.

I don't think I was getting defensive. I truly didn't understand the reasoning behind your question.

Yes I have had a student of two get off course and I would inform them of what was happening and the end result if not corrected. Students get caught up in the "clutter" of the radio, the course, the heading, the weather, the altitude, the charts and soon a mild deviation from their desired heading results in an off course excursion. Been there, done that.

You may be right, it may be the clutter of all I am trying to read and understand that has caused some misunderstandings. I am reading, listening, thinking and trying to learn. I am not there yet. Hopefully I will arrive one day, on course and at the right terminal.

Walt

[jlay]

Good.

Walt, when we look at the landscape of "creation" ideas we have all these differing theories of the age of the earth. And, within each of these we have more variations of belief as well. within each, those who stand on that platform have reconciled, in their own mind, the Bible with science. So, throughout the Christian faith you have those who beleive in an old earth, a young earth, and those who believe in an old earth and reject evolution and those that accept it as well.

I would contest that these differences mean squat. All of these people who vary in opinion regarding the age of the earth find themselves mysteriously meeting at a place called the Cross. We could spend our entire life pursuing answers to these questions, such as, does 'yom' meant literally or figuratively, and miss the central message of the Bible.

Why a cross? The central point of this thread is that something didn't sit right with you regarding the way your friend treated the doctrine of forgiveness. Something spoke to your heart, that this doesn't jive. I'd say you were right on in your initial gut reaction. Yes, today we see too often, people who use the grace of God for an occassion of the flesh.

So, forgiveness. Why? Why do I need it? Why do you need it? What does the bible have to say about it? And, what do we do with it?