Need some advice

[ageofknowledge]

See, I offer you the opportunity to clarify what you mean. You are extemely vague with your "interface". If you are truly trying to help, then specify what this means. You have stated that you have very clear ideas about what is manly...but don't offer details.

If you regret your earlier statements then say so, but by all means take this time now to clarify what you think women want in an interface. Why isn't asking a woman for coffee manly and then what constitutes manly interface?

I'm not sure yet if I do regret aspects of my earlier statements. But my lasts posts are more together imo. If you really have an interest in this subject, I suggest you learn from those qualified to teach this area of study rather than focus on lay person's interpretation of their materials. Find out for yourself. It is a fun subject. You can start with that book I recommended by Dr. Laura "The Care and Feeding of Men." I have a copy right here I've been reading. It's hilarious. If you want to get together and talk about it further, I'm in Santa Ana, CA. You can PM me for my phone number. Don't wear red. I don't like red. Peace.

[cslewislover]

There's a man I'm friends with on fb who I knew somewhat a long time ago at my first church. He is a smart creative man who makes his living making christian missions films (I actually need to get updated about the films he's doing these days, lol). He posts about making mochas and lattes at home. What a guy! And I read that George W. Bush used to get up early and bring his wife coffee in bed in the morning. So I think coffee and couples are a good combination!

If you all haven't watched The Lone Gunmen, I highly recommend this intelligent quirky comedy (one season of rentals). I bring it up because there's this one episode that is poignant. It involves super smart chimps that the government was breeding and training. One of the chimps tricked a bunch of the smart humans to help him escape and wind up being in a zoo - the zoo where his lady friend had been transferred to. When everyone finally figured out what was going on, they asked, dismayed, why the chimp would want to be trapped in a zoo, of all places. (The chimp typed, by the way.) He said that if you could not be with the one you loved, the whole world was a prison. (Looking at the bigger picture, without our true love, Christ, this world IS a prison.)

Worldly things for a Christian woman don't mean anything, or they shouldn't. I am attracted to certain guys for reasons I don't understand, I'm sure, but I can say that they are normally average looking guys in average looking clothes that drive average vehicles. Usually they are clean-cut to fashionably slightly wild looking. But I don't think this aspect is that big of a deal. Does it mean that the average male would rather "let himself go" and look like a slob? Does exercising socially acceptable grooming mean that the average male has become above average? And I still would love for a guy to take me to coffee. I've done this for a long time - gone to coffee shops. My oldest friend still around where I live, I met at a coffee shop - he was a barrista. Ha ha, I just realized I could get into some spicy language here with this, but I won't.

I don't know why this coffee thing is a problem at all. LOL. I just thought I'd say something more about it. MMMMMM, creamy sweetened vanilla lattes, with whipped cream on top, can be quite sensual. I guy would do well to get me one.



PS: I haven't listened to Dr. Laura in a long time, but I'm sure her book would be worth reading.

[ageofknowledge]

That does sound yummy CS. Maybe our growing older has something to do with appreciating many of the simpler things in life.

When I was younger I found females attracted to power and status but also symmetrical features, strength and confidence. I had good results by managing a good positive image (e.g. likable), reputation (e.g. high social value yet with a human side), and a certain sexual appeal (not to be confused with sexual immorality which damages reputation with the good girls don't like dirty birds).

I did not follow the herd. If a girl was absolutely beautiful, I ignored her at first and spoke to those around her. This made her wonder why I wasn't attracted to her. If she was plain, I would talk about the aspects of her I liked and show her attention. I would not be afraid to talk about women that liked me before a dating relationship was established. I found women hold each others opinions highly and get jealous easily which worked for me for reasons I don't fully understand.

I would wait for a sign that she was interested, when that showed itself then I would make a move (usually to take her hand) and slowly but surely escalate physical touching with the intention of getting to know her better. I wouldn't be afraid to show vulnerability and sensitivity at this point if I felt it.

Then I'd give her space to think and process what was happening and decide if she liked it. Finally I would take the lead and ask her for a date. This sometimes took a couple tries before getting a yes. Again space and timing. As I begin to date her, I turned on the charm but obeyed social mores carefully regarding the correct sequence of physical interactions (hand holding, then kissing, then making out, etc...).

Worked like a charm. My first three girlfriends were all nice virgin girls. I left two of them in that condition. And then I became a Christian and didn't feel right about dating non-Christian women because of what I was being told the Bible said about it at church. So I didn't. Since all of the Christian women were married that I met, had boyfriends, were leftover, or not my type, nothing ever happened after that.

If you're going to become a Christian, it is best to do it while your young when it comes to this issue. Ignore the folklore and interface in a way that brings desirable results. Remember, you are competing for the interests of these women with other men. Don't forget that.

And Zoe, I only hold hands on the first date so you'll have to wait until the second dear before we can kiss.

[cslewislover]

Age + Zoe =






And Gabrielman, I love your new sig image. You could ask me to a coffee shop any time.

[ageofknowledge]

That's so sweet CS. Gabriel... do pay attention because us Christians we love a happy ending.

[zoegirl]

Ignore the folklore and interface

Just out of curiosity...what in the world is the "folklore" that we have been espousing?!?!? So far all I have ever suggested is that a man be a gentleman and actually listen to us.

I mentioned before that most of the guys I have liked weren't classically handsome...and two of them certainly didn't have "game"...they were funny and charming. Stop pigeoning-holing women.

Oh, and since I'm one of the "left-overs"...I doubt I would fall into your acceptable positions....

[Gabrielman]

And Gabrielman, I love your new sig image. You could ask me to a coffee shop any time.

If only I didn't live in Ohio huh ? But I can't drink coffee, it would be tea for me, at least for now. Maybe a coffee tea shop? lol if only there were such a thing...

When I was younger I found females attracted to power and status but also symmetrical features, strength and confidence. I had good results by managing a good positive image (e.g. likable), reputation (e.g. high social value yet with a human side), and a certain sexual appeal (not to be confused with sexual immorality which damages reputation with the good girls don't like dirty birds).

I did not follow the herd. If a girl was absolutely beautiful, I ignored her at first and spoke to those around her. This made her wonder why I wasn't attracted to her. If she was plain, I would talk about the aspects of her I liked and show her attention. I would not be afraid to talk about women that liked me before a dating relationship was established. I found women hold each others opinions highly and get jealous easily which worked for me for reasons I don't fully understand.

I would wait for a sign that she was interested, when that showed itself then I would make a move (usually to take her hand) and slowly but surely escalate physical touching with the intention of getting to know her better. I wouldn't be afraid to show vulnerability and sensitivity at this point if I felt it.

Then I'd give her space to think and process what was happening and decide if she liked it. Finally I would take the lead and ask her for a date. This sometimes took a couple tries before getting a yes. Again space and timing. As I begin to date her, I turned on the charm but obeyed social mores carefully regarding the correct sequence of physical interactions (hand holding, then kissing, then making out, etc...).

That sounds a little better than what other things you have typed . I see no problem with complamenting a girl and working on a relationship, that's for sure. Anyway it still sounds better than the other stuff.

That's so sweet CS. Gabriel... do pay attention because us Christians we love a happy ending.

Don't worry about that, I have been listing to her and Zoe, so.... I like what they have said. This thread has gotten interesting, and amusing at points. I didn't think there would be such a response to this, but it is good. I have learned much from this thread, maybe I will start another thread about something else we can all talk about ,lol, that would be fun. Anyway thanks. God bless!

[cslewislover]

And Gabrielman, I love your new sig image. You could ask me to a coffee shop any time.

If only I didn't live in Ohio huh ? But I can't drink coffee, it would be tea for me, at least for now. Maybe a coffee tea shop? lol if only there were such a thing...

What, you don't go to Starbucks? They have both coffee and tea. Actually, most or all coffee shops do. And, I'm more into hazelnut flavor lately.

[ageofknowledge]

Ignore the folklore and interface

Just out of curiosity...what in the world is the "folklore" that we have been espousing?!?!? So far all I have ever suggested is that a man be a gentleman and actually listen to us.

I mentioned before that most of the guys I have liked weren't classically handsome...and two of them certainly didn't have "game"...they were funny and charming. Stop pigeoning-holing women.

Oh, and since I'm one of the "left-overs"...I doubt I would fall into your acceptable positions....

Well.. this is better than what I thought you were going to say. I thought you were going to say something like, "I wouldn't date you if you were the last man on earth."



I even had my comeback all ready. I was going to say, "Nobody panic! Remain calm. This here is a normal reaction of a highly sensitized situation that happens sometimes when a woman begins to have feelings for a man but her mind reacts defensively."

We're all leftovers at this point Zoe. There is no harm and no foul. My photo's on my site at http://ebtsms.com/Consultant_Bio.aspx. I'd like yours. Peace and God bless.

-Paul

[Gabrielman]

And Gabrielman, I love your new sig image. You could ask me to a coffee shop any time.

If only I didn't live in Ohio huh ? But I can't drink coffee, it would be tea for me, at least for now. Maybe a coffee tea shop? lol if only there were such a thing...

What, you don't go to Starbucks? They have both coffee and tea. Actually, most or all coffee shops do. And, I'm more into hazelnut flavor lately.

They just built one here. Didn't know they have tea, now I will have to go! Hazelnut.... mmmmmm.... if only I could drink coffee.... . Oh well, coffee for you tea for me. Oh and thanks for the pic! I love it!

Well.. this is better than what I thought you were going to say. I thought you were going to say something like, "I wouldn't date you if you were the last man on earth."



I even had my comeback all ready. I was going to say, "Nobody panic! Remain calm. This here is a normal reaction of a highly sensitized situation that happens sometimes when a woman begins to have feelings for a man but her mind reacts defensively."

We're all leftovers at this point Zoe. There is no harm and no foul. My photo's on my site at http://ebtsms.com/Consultant_Bio.aspx. I'd like yours. Peace and God bless.

-Paul

Paul huh? Cool. Preparing a comeback though, That means you reacted defensivly... lol, but this thread is getting good!
God bless!

[cslewislover]

And Gabrielman, I love your new sig image. You could ask me to a coffee shop any time.

If only I didn't live in Ohio huh ? But I can't drink coffee, it would be tea for me, at least for now. Maybe a coffee tea shop? lol if only there were such a thing...

What, you don't go to Starbucks? They have both coffee and tea. Actually, most or all coffee shops do. And, I'm more into hazelnut flavor lately.

They just built one here. Didn't know they have tea, now I will have to go! Hazelnut.... mmmmmm.... if only I could drink coffee.... . Oh well, coffee for you tea for me. Oh and thanks for the pic! I love it!





Cheers!

[zoegirl]

Ignore the folklore and interface

Just out of curiosity...what in the world is the "folklore" that we have been espousing?!?!? So far all I have ever suggested is that a man be a gentleman and actually listen to us.

I mentioned before that most of the guys I have liked weren't classically handsome...and two of them certainly didn't have "game"...they were funny and charming. Stop pigeoning-holing women.

Oh, and since I'm one of the "left-overs"...I doubt I would fall into your acceptable positions....

Well.. this is better than what I thought you were going to say. I thought you were going to say something like, "I wouldn't date you if you were the last man on earth."

Wasn't even on my radar to go there....have no clue why the thread went in this direction, I still view your "methods" as calculating. I would never know if you sincerely like me. I'm not into playing games or into the "playing it cool" or playing hard to get. Perhaps that's the math/science part of my personality. I actually dislike the politics and prefer to keep it simple. I don't ever want to be kept guessing...I detest that.

I even had my comeback all ready. I was going to say, "Nobody panic! Remain calm. This here is a normal reaction of a highly sensitized situation that happens sometimes when a woman begins to have feelings for a man but her mind reacts defensively."

Ummm...to be blunt...do you reall think that's what's going on here?!?! I mean...wow, no...I;m not reacting defensively because I have feelings for you.... and would find it humurous that you are taking it so. I'm a bit more basic than that. When a man essentially reveals that he views what I consider important irrelevant, that pretty much does it for me. Unless you are prepared to retract much of what you said earlier, I still view your "take" on women as off-putting, to put it mildly.

We're all leftovers at this point Zoe.

Actually those are your words, not mine. I have thought long and hard about this...(one has to, of course) and it is a very worldly take, if not cynical. I have, of course, fought those feelings of cynicism...but to succumb to those feelings of cynicism reveal a powerful lack of trust in God (doesn't mean I have completely conquered those feelings, but those are the feelings one should battle ). He has given me amazing blessings in life...an awesome job, an awesome family, and so far, the ability to control my disease. I am not a leftover and any guy who views me as such (and were I to view another man as such would really be a sad thing for any relationship) in not worth my time and my devotion....it is not in His timing. It is sad that you view it as such and disappointingly worldly. If the bible teaches us anything more powerfully, it is that His timing is very frustrating but ultimately right. From Abraham and Sarah, Joseph, the Israelites waiting in captivity, down to Paul in his letter about the thorn in His side, it is a very common theme in the Bible than waiting on the Lord. He does not forget us...and no man better view me as a leftover!! He better be thinking..."wow, I finally found you!!" and not "i guess you will do"...

And yes,Agbrielman, hazelnut is awesome coffee....hazelnut cinnamon is even better. And I shouldn;t have too much of it....one cup in the morning is all I should do...the caffeine can complicate.

There is no harm and no foul. My photo's on my site at http://ebtsms.com/Consultant_Bio.aspx. I'd like yours. Peace and God bless.

-Paul

Not going to happen anytime soon...sorry to disappoint...I don't typically do that.

[Jac3510]

I'm not even going to get into the war that's been going on over the past few pages. But I will throw my two cents in about the OP.

I got married when I was 27. I always thought it would have been sooner than that, only because unlike most guys, I was never interested in dating around. I always just wanted to meet Mrs. Right, settle down, and get married. I have one of those typical stories where as soon as I renounced my search, Gretchen fell in my lap. Actually, more like put in my hand. I was called over to the corner of the room with a friend of mine who said, "Chris, I have someone I'd like you to meet. Chris, Gretchen. Gretchen, Chris. Bye!"

And the rest was history.

Great story, sure. But what I've taken from it isn't the good old fashioned moral about "stop looking and God will provide!" I suspect He will provide whenever He wants to whether you are looking or not. There are, though, three things I think are essential:

1. Be optimistic. It's too easy to get cynical about the opposite sex, especially after having been hurt before. Women aren't all gold diggers who only want the coolest men. They are normal human beings who are complex, just like everyone else. They like some people, they don't like others, just like men like some people and don't like others. There are no rules. Men aren't all sex-prowlers who just want the night. We shouldn't judge people based on their gender. We should get to know each person we meet as an individual and let what happens be what happens.

2. Be prepared. This is especially important for men, but obviously for women as well. Even though I had stopped looking, I was very ready in every possible way. Get yourself in a mindset to settle down. Be able to provide for yourself. Have goals and ambitions. Be a real person who is confident, especially in God. And above all, be in a deep relationship with God. It is absolutely impossible to love someone with genuine love if you don't have a deep, personal relationship with Him. Because if you don't, then you will end up using the other person for your own gratification, be it physical, mental, or even spiritual. Love is about giving and service.

3. Be open. In other words, set your absolute non-negotiables, and don't worry about the rest. And those non-negotiables shouldn't be shallow. Obviously, one has to be that you spouse-to-be must be a believer (and preferably a strong one). Beyond that, what do you have to have? To be honest, I had nothing beyond that except someone in my age range. I'm not saying have low standards, but the way I saw it, if I couldn't be genuine friends with the girl I married, it wouldn't matter a hill of beans how "hot" she was. After all, in the end, all that will fade, then what will you have left? If not friendship, then nothing. As it happens, I find my wife absolutely breathtaking (and I found out that I REALLY like redheads! )

That's kind of it for me. Just be willing to meet people (kind of important there!) and give them a chance. Be yourself. Be confident in who you are. Take care of yourself. If you need to lose a few pounds (or in my case, put them on), then do it. If you need to clean up some bad habits, clean them up. If you need a job, get one. Don't be negative. Be positive. In short, be a person who GOD is proud of, and you'll have no problem finding someone who will be proud of you. Then, marry them and spend your life serving them.

Yeah, it's not a Hollywood picture, but it seems to be that the Hollywood marriages aren't much of a model to follow, anyway.

God bless

[ageofknowledge]

We're all leftovers at this point Zoe.

Actually those are your words, not mine. I have thought long and hard about this...(one has to, of course) and it is a very worldly take, if not cynical. I have, of course, fought those feelings of cynicism...but to succumb to those feelings of cynicism reveal a powerful lack of trust in God (doesn't mean I have completely conquered those feelings, but those are the feelings one should battle ). He has given me amazing blessings in life...an awesome job, an awesome family, and so far, the ability to control my disease. I am not a leftover and any guy who views me as such (and were I to view another man as such would really be a sad thing for any relationship) in not worth my time and my devotion....it is not in His timing. It is sad that you view it as such and disappointingly worldly. If the bible teaches us anything more powerfully, it is that His timing is very frustrating but ultimately right. From Abraham and Sarah, Joseph, the Israelites waiting in captivity, down to Paul in his letter about the thorn in His side, it is a very common theme in the Bible than waiting on the Lord. He does not forget us...and no man better view me as a leftover!! He better be thinking..."wow, I finally found you!!" and not "i guess you will do"...

Not going to happen anytime soon...sorry to disappoint...I don't typically do that.

--> Be bold and mighty winds will come to your aid. Don't be so quick to shut down the process of us men finding you. We're trying. We're doing our part. Why pick us apart and then close the door on us?

[Gabrielman]

To get back on track here, cause this is important, what Zoe said makes a good point. You have yet to retract your eairliar satements, and what they imply. One must read them carefully, and I suggest you do so.

My advice Gabriel is that if you want to avoid my fate, while you are still young, forget all the wives tales you hear from Christians at church. They will not work. Women want a man in control with money, looks, and game.

This board is full of people that will give you bad advice on this point. Trust me. Don't be a beggar, a schumck, a beta male.

Get some game. Get yourself socialized properly and in that context dress right and take authority. Become an alpha male. If you don't have the money yet, then dress right, put a plan educational/career plan together and "act as if" while you work your plan. That's how you get the job done friend.

This was your first attempt at advice... You say women want a man in control... in control of what? Her, ain't gonna happen, that's just wrong. In control of other men? Not what a Christian does. In control of my own life? So are you saying I am not? I will leave that for an answer. Looks, but what kind. Sure you should be attracted to a person, but one must wonder why the emphasis. Looks/money, both matterialistic both not the focal point of a relationship.
You also insisted that no one here gives good advice, but it seems that no one agrees, which means that if you are the only one who holds this view then you are wrong here.
At the very end, I love this one, you tell me that if I don't have money/looks and game that I should lie as if I do until I did... so you want me to lie to women now... really? That is against Christian values, and it kills trust. I do not like the idea of being decitful.

So many men in this society are brainwashed by our modern liberal culture to view any attempt to explain to them that the modern liberal super sensitive beta male beggar ideal is not desirable nor does it often work as offensive. You can and should shed that approach. Many Christian books have been written on this subject. I am a Christian. Don't read into my advice anymore than that. No more was/is intended.

Do you honestly think women view all men the same? Do you really believe they want a poor, shy, ugly, guy with poor socialization skills that does whatever they tell him to. They do not. They'll tell you all sorts of nonsense but they are wired a certain way biologically and will follow their biological programming. God made them that way. Learn their programming and how to interface with them in real life and you'll get better results. Forget about what they say. They do the opposite of what they say all the time. Have you never heard the expression "it is a woman's perogative to change her mind"?

Let's see pointing that out makes me a woman hater, a chauvenistic pig, etc... It doesn't really but that's what usually happens when you tell a guy to stop asking women out for coffee and start acting like a man and interfacing with them in a way that gets results. Good luck with your choices. I wish I had listened years ago.

Again with the beta/alpha thing.... sigh... The alpha male is arrogant and is useually detested by the women who are worth my time, the mature ones. I have yet to see a Christian alpha male be on the right path to God and be in a good relationship with a woman who they listen to. I have seen alpha males with broken marriges.... they broke them too.
You are right to say one thing, women don't see men all the same. They see you for who you present yourself as. You have presistantly gone with the wired thing, and it has been denounced by real women... hmmm, so you are calling them liars then? Think of how what you write sounds. You also say that pointing out your opinion will be taken as you being a woman hater and a chauvenistic pig... feeling guilty. If you knew it would happen then why didn't you word it differently?

Blah blah blah... their talk is irrelevant and like following smoke trails around in different directions looking for a fire somewhere you'll not likely find because what they say and do are often two different things.

Women respond to the stimuli they are presented with according to their programming. That's what you need to key in on. Bring your A game and interface with them in a manner that brings forth desirable predictable responses and stay with it honing it as you go. Live it. You'll be the one that ends up with many choices. Afterwards, you can get to know them.

Hehe.

Women respond to stimuli? Really...? And you wonder why I finally said it wasn't about sex, with your response being you weren't getting at that. Then if that isn't your goal why didn't you word this differently? The way you word things implies a lot about you. You also make it seem like all women want the same thing, so they don't have free will to choose? Is that what you ment? It seems that way, in almost every post. This hardwire thing is old, and there is no proof in what you say to support it, only accusations that these two are trying to lead me astray. Harsh. They have given good advice that I can use, you keep putting forth the "stimulat them and then choose one" idea. Women are people. They have thoughts, feelings and emotions just like you and I. They have hopes and dreams, ideas and opinions. Things that I have, things we can share.

The simplest definition is that it means interfacing with the needs and the wants of a female appropriately to get her to want to do what you want her to do. It includes matching your behavior, word choices, dress, socialization values and mores, intellect, etc... to accomplish this result. In the worldy sense, "game" is used to accomplish a sexually immoral result. In the Christian sense. it is used to get the girl you want to marry.

Here you say to match my behavior, words, ect., to theirs. I am not them... I am me, and I intend for them to see me for me. I should be myself.

You're a man. Men have a common biological template with attributes that can be understood and provide for predictable response. Sure there is variance but most will be within an acceptable variance to the mean. For example, we are visually stimulated. This is hard wired into our physiology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiology and one of the reasons Steven advises us to bounce our eyes when necessary to avoid lusting after beautiful women. This is but one of many hardwired attributes that males possess. I thought Dr. Laura hit quite a number of the more interesting ones personally in her book.

Women also possess common attributes as a part of their physiology. Knowing what these are and how to interface with them in a way that makes you a prospect for dating and marriage and not just a friend will get you on your way to where you want and need to go.

Back to bio 101. True men are attracted to women. However here is where you lose me on the "it isn't about sex" thing. This entire time it seems like you are implying that I should look for a woman, lie to her, be something I am not, get rich, be arrogant, and get the girl of my choice.... so if I am not being true to them and myself, and if I am not caring what they say because I am lying to them to get the results you think I want, then what are you getting at? What's left? I want my future wife to be my best friend, not someone I tricked into marrying me. Cslewislover and Zoe make good points about what you say, this is just me reminding you of what you said.

And yes,Agbrielman, hazelnut is awesome coffee....hazelnut cinnamon is even better. And I shouldn;t have too much of it....one cup in the morning is all I should do...the caffeine can complicate.

Man I wish I could drink flavored coffee again!
Jac3510, good advice, I will remember it.
Age.... look at your original posts, reread what you said, think of how it is viewed by all those who see it. Think of how you worded it. That's all I will say.
God bless!