I am gone for less than 8 hours and you all post so much... 
.cslewislover wrote:You keep ignoring that Anthony Flew book. His book is not the only one of it's kind, but still. The guy was a really well known philosopher atheist. He found reason to be convinced.
Maybe. But does that mean children need to be force-fed the bible in order to be saved? Just in case they die young? I don't think that's right. They should be able to make up their own minds, rather than be slowly brought up to believe that christianity's the only way. That's practically brainwashing them.People who live longer won't necessarily have any more advantage in believing than a younger person. Older people can get stuck in their ways and in their thinking.
How am I here to bug you? How can I even desire to 'know the lord' if I'm simply unable to believe in the bible? I've told you why I can't. There's just too many things that either don't make sense or are a bit far-fetched. That's why I'm wanting people's responses to what I'm saying, to hear a christian's point of view.What is your desire? You don't sound like you desire to know the Lord, but did you really come here just to bug us? If you want to know Him, seek Him. Quit relying on your own ability to understand God or the bible, which you can't fully on your own. I don't know. If you love someone, are you going to love them after looking at a laundry list of characteristics only, or for some other reason? Is there nothing more to relationship and love than things you find rational and acceptable? Why don't you open up your heart (and keep your mind open, open it more, in fact) and invite the Lord in, and see if he accepts.
Don't you worry, Santa's not going anywhere!Gabrielman wrote:
CS and Zoe, well done, and Santa (sounds odd cause the name) just keep asking questions, and looking for answers. I have not yet gotten to reading all the thread, I read some, and some responses to you were... anyway! lol, I will read it if I have time and respond to what I can. Though I don't know all the answers so there may be some I can't answer.
God bless and keep asking.
Of course I wouldn't want to be brainwashed. I was not brought up in a Christian home, although one parent was raised Baptist and the other Catholic. We didn't go because my mom, the Catholic raised one, hated the church. She believed in God, but saw too much hypocrisy. She believes in God now too. Is being raised with nothing that much better? Will that be my belief when I'm an adult, because I was raised that way: nothing? I don't know, I'm just wondering out loud.Santa wrote:Maybe. But does that mean children need to be force-fed the bible in order to be saved? Just in case they die young? I don't think that's right. They should be able to make up their own minds, rather than be slowly brought up to believe that christianity's the only way. That's practically brainwashing them.
How would you like it if your parents raised you into believing scientology was the way to go?
It's just that when someone comes on the board with a firmly held belief that is against Christianity (our faith), then what they say could be viewed as bugging us. I'm not saying you are; it was somewhat rhetorical. And I don't really view you as against our faith. I'm glad you want to seek our points of view.How am I here to bug you? How can I even desire to 'know the lord' if I'm simply unable to believe in the bible? I've told you why I can't. There's just too many things that either don't make sense or are a bit far-fetched. That's why I'm wanting people's responses to what I'm saying, to hear a christian's point of view.
You might easily be able to believe, based on your 'experience', but since I haven't had one all I'm able to go by is what I know. And what I know doesn't make sense to me.
I don't think people should be brain washed, neither do I believe that they should be force feed anything. However I do believe that informing them is nessecary, it is the job of a Christian parent to do so. A parent should not force a child to believe, but they should also educate them the best they can. It is in the responsability of a parent to teach a child. Too often today we let the gov. do that and they force feed atheism, humanism, and secularism, along with "acceptance" for many religons, Christianity not being one of them. Hmmm... I seem to be ranting here, forgive me, I just wanted to make the point that a parent should teach their child.Santa wrote:Maybe. But does that mean children need to be force-fed the bible in order to be saved? Just in case they die young? I don't think that's right. They should be able to make up their own minds, rather than be slowly brought up to believe that christianity's the only way. That's practically brainwashing them.
How would you like it if your parents raised you into believing scientology was the way to go?
Santa wrote:There's just too many things that either don't make sense or are a bit far-fetched. That's why I'm wanting people's responses to what I'm saying, to hear a christian's point of view.
We'll do our best to share what we can. I do believe there are a lot of things that would not make anysense to many who are not Christian. Keep asking, and be as specific as possible for my sake (lol), you may find the answers you were looking for.I guess informing them that there's a number of religions and theories on why we're here would be the better option, rather than deadset telling a child there's nothing.cslewislover wrote:Of course I wouldn't want to be brainwashed. I was not brought up in a Christian home, although one parent was raised Baptist and the other Catholic. We didn't go because my mom, the Catholic raised one, hated the church. She believed in God, but saw too much hypocrisy. She believes in God now too. Is being raised with nothing that much better? Will that be my belief when I'm an adult, because I was raised that way: nothing? I don't know, I'm just wondering out loud.
lol, I think that'd be me. There's always a possibility something is set up. I'd think things like "Is the person really dead?" etc, am I hallucinating?As if there will be a certain point, that a certain degree of knowledge, would tip a person to believe. But that's not the case. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus conveys that there are some who, even witnessing someone being raised from the dead, would not believe.
Where are you from? America seems to have a large amount of christian politicians (as far as I know), so you couldn't be from there.Gabrielman wrote: Too often today we let the gov. do that and they force feed atheism, humanism, and secularism, along with "acceptance" for many religons, Christianity not being one of them.
He's christian btw. I don't think religion should dominate politics at all. Agreed, politics and religon... bad mix! imo, people tend to use it, and the believers of it...Santa wrote:I don't think religion should dominate politics at all.
Haha, I think that's the same here. Most of the people in Catholic schools tend to be there only because they're better than some of the public schools. It's pretty much like normal school with one extra subject and the occasional prayer. Even though I don't believe in christianity it should probably be taught consistently amongst everything else to let people make up their own mind... but we're going a bit off topic now. :pGabrielman wrote:Agreed, politics and religon... bad mix! imo, people tend to use it, and the believers of it...Santa wrote:I don't think religion should dominate politics at all.
Anyway, yeah I live in the USA, but the schools... wow for a "Christian" country they sure don't teach it. Every time we had a debate on science and religon it was me vs everyone, no joke. They would teach how great Islam was, and how bad Christians were. There were many secular books we had to read. Actuall to be honest I don't believe a politician when they claim to be Christian, I think they lie to manipulate and use us.
God bless!
Yes that's right, and anyone who wasn't a pagan was an "atheist". Christians in the beginning were referred to as "atheist". But we - surely - both know that "atheism" in the true, modern sense of the word, was a rebelliom, a protest against a stringent and at times corrupt church. Atheism sought to give man moral autonomy, and just look where THAT led! Morality comes down through our culture, couhed firmly and snugly in the Christian ethic. A-theism has no moral foundations whatsoever, so a-theist morals are purely parasitic upon Christianity.Proinsias wrote:I was under the impression that the term atheism was coined by the Greeks before the emergence of Christianity.DannyM wrote:And your morals come through God, and handed down through 2000 years of western civilisation, built on Christianity. Any morals you possess have nothing whatsoever to do with your faith - a-theism, which was founded as a protest. Your morals come through being born and raised in a Christian culture, and you are parasitic on that culture.
May you find God, but all in good time
To claim that any morals one possesses are the product of being raised in a Christian culture seems a rather shaky position to me. There are many morals which are common to atheists and are shared by people coming from non-Christian upbringings and cultures. Which morals is it you allude to that come from being raised in a Christian culture as opposed to an Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist, secular, pagan or .... the list goes on?
Wrong. Atheism is a belief that there is No God. Faith can be defined as believing in something which cannot be proven. Believing in No God is believing in something which cannot be proven. Therefore, atheism is a faith. This is philosophically correct.waynepii wrote:Not true. Atheism (actually agnosticism) is the absence of belief. Do you believe in Zeus? (Many people did in the past.) If not, you're an agnostic wrt Zeus.
I think virtually all "atheists" are really agnostics. Not believing in Santa Claus is a form of agnosticism, not believing in other people's gods is a form of agnosticism. An agnostic just happens to not believe in YOUR god as well.
Agnosticism is rational and evidence based. An agnostic doesn't believe Santa doesn't exist, an agnostic simply hasn't seen proof he does. Should concrete proof of Santa's existence be presented, most Santa-agnostics would become Santa-believers. Likewise, should concrete proof of Zeus's existence be presented, most Zeus-agnostics would become Zeus-believers. Etc.
Force fed? The only thing I see children today being force fed is secular humanism, though all forms of media and culture. TV, billboards, magazines, public schools.......They are fed, what to wear, what to think, what to say, what to do, what to like, what to listen to, etc. etc.But does that mean children need to be force-fed the bible in order to be saved?
That is correct Dan. And the atheistic worldview has had serious ramifications for every society it is implemented in. Every single time (without exception) that a nation has implemented state atheism, it has resulted in terrible persecution of the populace. Every single time.DannyM wrote:Wrong. Atheism is a belief that there is No God. Faith can be defined as believing in something which cannot be proven. Believing in No God is believing in something which cannot be proven. Therefore, atheism is a faith. This is philosophically correct.waynepii wrote:Not true. Atheism (actually agnosticism) is the absence of belief. Do you believe in Zeus? (Many people did in the past.) If not, you're an agnostic wrt Zeus.
I think virtually all "atheists" are really agnostics. Not believing in Santa Claus is a form of agnosticism, not believing in other people's gods is a form of agnosticism. An agnostic just happens to not believe in YOUR god as well.
Agnosticism is rational and evidence based. An agnostic doesn't believe Santa doesn't exist, an agnostic simply hasn't seen proof he does. Should concrete proof of Santa's existence be presented, most Santa-agnostics would become Santa-believers. Likewise, should concrete proof of Zeus's existence be presented, most Zeus-agnostics would become Zeus-believers. Etc.
You cannot lump atheists with the agnostics - that would patently be incorrect. A non-belief in God is agnosticism; a belief that there is No God is atheism; the non-belief is agnostic as it is undecided; the firm stance of a BELEF that there is NO GOD is atheism, and thus a faith.
Dan
Couldn't agree with you more! I am not the only witness to this indoctrination of secular-huamnism in our moderen culture. All one needs to do is turn on the news (like msnbc for example), and watch them bash Christianity like there were no tomorrow. Everytime a Christian problem arises (like a so-called Christian who goes on a killing spree, ect.), the media blame our faith, but if someone who were of a different faith (islam, a-theism, wicka, ect.), then they were a stand alone and it had nothing to do with their religion.jlay wrote:Force fed? The only thing I see children today being force fed is secular humanism, though all forms of media and culture. TV, billboards, magazines, public schools.......They are fed, what to wear, what to think, what to say, what to do, what to like, what to listen to, etc. etc.
And yet somehow people think raising a child in a Christian home is "forcing" something on them. Comical.
