A Theological Wrinkle

[DannyM]

Our Christian position is that husband and wife are "one flesh". So what happens at death if one chooses salvation and the other rejects it? Wouldn't God keep the husband and wife together?

I know that husband and wife are not "one mind" but, if the spirit is eternal, then what of love? Isn't love eternal? Marriage is a decision a husband and wife make to remain together forever through all adversity and in eternity. But if the husband believes and the wife doesn't, can we at all reason that perhaps God will have mercy for the sake of Eternal Love and keep the husband and wife united?

Or am I being too hopefull, here? Should the wife's rejection of salvation be her own conscious and therefore fatal choice?

God bless

[jlay]

Jesus said,

""You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
Matt. 20:29-30

[cslewislover]

I always thought the one flesh meant that they will produce children - their two fleshes become one. I even heard a conservative pastor say the same thing not long ago. We obviously don't become one flesh in any other way, and there is no marriage in heaven. We also need to decide for ourselves if we accept God's gift of forgiving our own individual sins through Christ's sacrifice.

[DannyM]

Jesus said,

""You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
Matt. 20:29-30

I take your point, and we see this too in Mark 12:25 where Jesus says that in the kingdom of God there will be "no marrige or giving in marriage". But what if you're already married? Is this eternal bond between husband and wife simply disregarded? Hey, I am not questioning the authority of scripture; it is what it is. But I am thinking hard on the doughnut, and I'm thinking that the love between a man and his wife is eternal, and I'm thinking God, in his grace, mercy and wisdom, may admit the partner and choose not to break their love, which is eternal. It's not so much about the marriage - it's about the eternal love between the man and the woman. Although marriage is obviously featuring heavily here, and I cannot wriggle free from that fact and what scripture says. So it's a matter of God's Judgement, perhaps his mercy.

God bless

[cslewislover]

But what if you loved your spouse dearly like you say, and they die? And then you marry someone else, and love them just as dearly? What then?? I imagine that we will have close relationships in heaven with those we had close relationships to here. Why not? But they can't be the same, because of the scenario I just asked about. However it will be in Heaven, it will be good. Concerning an unbelieving spouse . . . we aren't supposed to be unequally yoked (there are good reasons for this), unless one becomes a believer afterwards. If this is the case, then you just have to keep praying for your spouse. You never know, she might become a believer any day, or on her deathbed - who knows. But it seems to me that you're putting your spouse above God here. God loved us so much that he's offering us this hard-won gift, and she needs to accept it willingly. That's what the bible teaches. She has to willingly want to be washed of her own sins and want to be in the Lord's presence. I think His mercy is amazing enough for people like me, who willingly want to be with him . . . I certainly would want someone I dearly loved to be in heaven with me, like my father . . . I'm not really sure about him. Anyway, why won't she believe?

[DannyM]

But what if you loved your spouse dearly like you say, and they die? And then you marry someone else, and love them just as dearly? What then?? I imagine that we will have close relationships in heaven with those we had close relationships to here. Why not? But they can't be the same, because of the scenario I just asked about. However it will be in Heaven, it will be good. Concerning an unbelieving spouse . . . we aren't supposed to be unequally yoked (there are good reasons for this), unless one becomes a believer afterwards. If this is the case, then you just have to keep praying for your spouse. You never know, she might become a believer any day, or on her deathbed - who knows. But it seems to me that you're putting your spouse above God here. God loved us so much that he's offering us this hard-won gift, and she needs to accept it willingly. That's what the bible teaches. She has to willingly want to be washed of her own sins and want to be in the Lord's presence. I think His mercy is amazing enough for people like me, who willingly want to be with him . . . I certainly would want someone I dearly loved to be in heaven with me, like my father . . . I'm not really sure about him. Anyway, why won't she believe?

Well, if love truly is redemptive, then the deceased wife and the current wife would both be saved through the husband's love. From the Apostle, 1 Corinth 13:2-3 , "If I have the gift of prophesy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing." So faith alone is not enough, and the love of a husband for his wife my just save the unbelieving her, not through their own choice, but in spite of it.

I don't see how I'm putting my (theoretically - I don't have a wife, the thought just occurred that there must be couples out there in this predicament) spouse "above God" simply by asking the question. How does that work? But you are right and the extent and depth to God's mercy cannot be known by us, so who knows? Perhaps the husband is practicing for two?

God bless

[jlay]

Danny, these verses are a response from Christ regarding those already married.

So faith alone is not enough, and the love of a husband for his wife my just save the unbelieving her, not through their own choice, but in spite of it.

That is not correct. You can't save someone by marrying them. No one loved you or your wife more than Christ. But it requires faith in this love to save a person.

[cslewislover]

Yeah. We're saved because of God's love, and we are saved through faith - our own faith. When we show God's love to others, it hopefully will affect them, but it is through their own desire and their own faith that God brings about their salvation.

[DannyM]

Danny, these verses are a response from Christ regarding those already married.

So faith alone is not enough, and the love of a husband for his wife my just save the unbelieving her, not through their own choice, but in spite of it.

That is not correct. You can't save someone by marrying them. No one loved you or your wife more than Christ. But it requires faith in this love to save a person.

I tend to agree. Scripture is pretty clear on it. I just thought it would be something to kick around for a bit. And when all is said and done, we ultimately leave these things to Christ. If and when I get married let's hope this problem never arises; if she's a good Christian girl I'll be grateful.

God bless

[DannyM]

Yeah. We're saved because of God's love, and we are saved through faith - our own faith. When we show God's love to others, it hopefully will affect them, but it is through their own desire and their own faith that God brings about their salvation.

That's a nice way to put it, Cslewislover.

[DannyM]

Matthew 19:5-7

"...For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh... So they no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not seperate."

It is still nagging me people.

Danny

[jlay]

This is not describing spiritual destiny, but emphasizing the covenant of marriage. A marriage is unifying covenant. Another way to say it, is they are no longer individuals, but a unit. In other words they are joining together in all things to SHARE a life.

[DannyM]

Matthew 19:5-7

"...For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh... So they no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not seperate."

It is still nagging me people.

Danny

"...Therefore what God has joined together, let no man seperate."

No man can seperate them. Will God seperate them at the last judgement? Yes, according to the orthodoxy of faith in the glory of Christ. I am in no way questioning this orthodoxy. But something niggles me here. Would God really seperate the believing husband from the nonbelieving wife? Ultimately, probably yes. But you never know how mysterious God will be when Judgement day comes...

[jlay]

Danny, actually we do know, because God's Word teaches us. We have to be very careful in how we read certain scriptures. There are certain scriptures which if read out of context or outside the whole counsel of God could lead one to this conclusion.

For example: 1 Cor. 7:14
If we take this verse out of context, we would think, "Oh this means a husbands faith saves his wife and vice versa." But if we read on to 1 Cor. 7:16 “For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?”
Obviously the sanctification in verse 14 is the sanctity of the marriage itself, and is advice not to divorce a spouse just because they are a non-believer. That children born of this marriage will not be illegitimate.


In Acts 16:31 we could also see a similar conclusion if we read the verse out of context. But then we read in Acts 16:32-34, "Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house."
The "others" heard and believed in Christ for salvation. Afterall, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Rom. 10:17)

There is only one way of salvation, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:13-14; John 6:67-68; John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Ephesians 2:8).

Jesus Himself indicates that the Gospel often divides families. For example, in Matthew 10:34-36 Jesus said: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; and a man's enemies will be those of his own household.”

Salvation is a personal exchange between the person and Christ. As is judgment.

Hebrews 9:27
John 3:36

The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev 20:11-15).

If we read the scripture in light of the scripture, taking the whole counsel of God, and rightly dividing the word of truth, we can understand how salvation is accomplished. This need not be an unclear issue, nor do I think, based on the whole counsel of God, that He intends it to be. When we let our own devices lure us into "maybes" and "what ifs" we drift into dangerous territory. Be careful how you handle the Word. 2 Timothy 2:15

[Jac3510]

Jesus said,

""You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
Matt. 20:29-30

Why did this not solve the thread? Jesus DIRECTLY answers the question. There is no marriage in the resurrection. Period. Nada. It isn't there. It doesn't matter if people were married in their lifetimes. There is no marriage in the resurrection. To argue that there is marriage for SOME people in the resurrection is to say that Jesus is lying. He didn't say there is none except in the case of.

Is the love between a man and his wife eternal? Sure. All love is eternal. You can love someone without being married to them. There is no sex in heaven. There won't be family units like there are now. Everyone will love everyone perfectly, all in Christ. But marriage? Jesus says no, and we can't go beyond that.

As far as God separating people, Paul deals with that. "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage." Rom - 7:2 (NIV) When someone dies, the marriage is removed. Marriage is not for eternity. The bible doesn't say that anywhere. It is for your lifetime. THIS lifetime.

In any case, we can't allow ourselves to move past Jesus' words. He said that there was NO marriage in the resurrection. So the question is over. Put a period on it. No ifs, ands, buts, or excepts. To start adding ifs, ands, buts, or excepts is to not take Jesus at His word. So the "wrinkle" only comes up if one ignores Jesus . . .