Case in point -
You know just because you keep saying the same mantra will not make it any more truthful or validated.touchingcloth wrote:The contradiction is that the christian god is often referred to as being infinitely loving (or words to that effect), which just doesn't tally with the account of the bible.
There is NO contradiction when you take every attribute of God into consideration. You either again missed, just wanted to disregard the matter or alternativly again i did not convey my answer with clarity. Go read the bible and you will find righteousness (plus the others i highlighted) throughout the bible and always relaited to Gods actions and manner.So why don't you go and look at how this puts God into another perspective so you can at least get a partial revelation. I am not disputing that one of Gods attributes is Love nor how important this is; clearly it is profound, however it is NOT all that God is and especially in relation and with relationship too man.While you are at it, also look at Gods Sovereignty, which will also reveal the answers you appear to be looking for. Another warning though you won't like what you find because it is not within your Paradigm.
The statement you have made above is also very unsubstantial . You give no foundation to your view and make it frivolous with "or words to that effect", surley this is not how you conduct your research?When you put an answer like that on your science exam and give it to your Professor, tell me so can watch.
next point in case -
I am really not one that values how many words are in a piece of literature, but since you brought it up, i will oblige on this occasion. I do not know how you Quantify the value for the amount of a word that is mentioned, i look at the intent and content of the text for value, however regarding your above statement in an earlier post, this is what i found in the bible.touchingcloth wrote:The biblical evidence to support that view of satan just isn't there.
The names mentioned are (NIV) - Satan, devil, Leviathan, the serpent, coiling serpent, Beelzebub, Abaddon, Apollyon, gliding serpent, the dragon, Belial, the wolf, the great dragon, the monster of the sea, ancient serpent, lord of the flies, morning star and son of the dawn; i am sure there are more, however in the 18 usages, these referances are used within the parameter of 77 textual entrees.
When you consider that Adam of Genesis is mentioned in textual entrees of only 30times, the comparision speaks of its self.So from an empirical perspective does this mean that the mention of satan 77 times holds more value than the 30 of Adam?? If you then say(as you have said above, so this must be your view) that 77 times is of little value then this would mean that Adam has no Signifigance at all,especially from a percential value!Or again did you actually investigate your statement with findings or use the unscientific approach of "gut feeling", "my personal opinion'", or worse " this is what someone told me "!
I don't know why you keep bring this up, since you have already stated that "The biblical evidence to support that view of satan just isn't there" and he is mentioed more than Adam so in with your logic - Adam doesn't matter - so get over it and move on.touchingcloth wrote:The point about the age of the universe is not moot; the bible purports that the earth was created ~6,000 years ago - we know that this is not even close to the truth. The bible also states that man and all the animals were created fully formed and as they appear today - we know that this too is not even close to the truth.
Clearly you didn't read or understand what i said, or maybe i didn't explain myself correctly again. I do not perpetuate the "Young Earth Creation", but, to expand on this, the bible does not say the world was only 6,000 yrs old - YEC people say this, so go ask them what they mean. All you are doing again is holding fast to your dogma, bringing up for attention, yet not responding to the answer i have given. You are trying to prove a worth that for me shows no significance.
Again you pout a statement with no value of substance to your claim.How about some depth of knowledge on your part, so how does the bible say the world is only 6,000 yrs old ?where does it say that God produced living beings in their completeness?
Did you even read or understand what i was refering to when i said "parallel poetry" ? does it not bring any worth to your enquiry?touchingcloth wrote:The bible says that god specifically hardened the Pharaoh's heart, not that god simply didn't "force" the Pharaoh to release them.
Again you have misquoted me or again i did not reply with clarity. I did not say God "forced' the Pharaoh. What i said is that God let Pharaoh's heart fall into his own desire. If you look at the text ( do you actually go and look ? ), what you have done is islotate a piece of text and looked at it without value of inclusion. Look at and try to understand the conversation Moses has with God at the start of the chapter. Notice Moses great reluctance to do what God asks for fear of failure (again free will ), but God gives Moses guidance and tells him to also take Aaron. When you get to Exodux4:21, again what God is saying here is that Moses although he will have God with him, will not have an effect on the Pharaoh becasue God will not influence the Pharaoh by subduing and forcing the Pharaoh by changing his heart as the Pharaoh already has a hardened heart.
To put it plainly - Moses is totally worried that he will fail Gods plan and be blamed by God for not succeeding. God is telling Moses he will fail because the Pharaoh will not listen even though Moses will show him by sight that God of the Hebrews is with him. This is so Moses will not loose heart and not wish to carry on with Gods plan.
OK i know i am going to regret this but look at this passage ( actully look at the complete chapter,then isolate the passage and compare it to the Pharaoh.Genesis20:6. Look at the position( standing) of the Abimelech and the Pharaoh and then take particular attention to the differance in attitude that each one has to the situation they face with God.
To your above comment, God does FORCE pharaoh to release his people but he does it by action not by the slight of hand.
Do you also understand what the Jewish belief is when they refer to the heart? it is not the same as the Western view.
Again just words with no substance. How about showing some?? and not merely give your rhetoric.touchingcloth wrote:The point about "his people" is particularly repulsive; a major tenet of christianity is that men are created in god's image yet god harbours this lust for one particular ethnic group and often exhibits deep and violent xenophobia towards other groups.
Christianity is for everyone,those are "his people" (your term not mine)it is not exclusive,unless that person does not want to be included - their choice.Your view is actually an isolational perspective, it is the impression you give by your writting.
For someone who states they have read Middle Eastern history, this statement is an affront of historical secular records.By your standards your own comment is actually bigotry. How do you come to the conclusion that they are "primitives" in the desert? What time period are you refering too and where is your Anthropological benchmark?touchingcloth wrote:this is made very much worse when some primitives in the desert a few thousand years ago decided to write down that they were superior to all other ethnic groups in god's eyes, then to pass this bigotry down the generations.
If they are only "His people" as you have stated in the paragraph within where this statement is included,you theninfer, they bring this bigotry down the generations, then "who actual are his people are you refering too?"
Up to an including the 21st century, if you are claiming, his people are those who have written and follow these books and they are then tranfered down through the generations with bigotry. You must therefore be including All Nations of the world who expout this believe? so how is it then inclusive to only those who wrote the bible ??
In your last paragraph you have made a paradox.
If you want to find "A" truth or "THE" truth , you need to bring substance, evidance with your words or all your words are nothing more than just blowing in the wind. Asking the right question(s) will give you the right answers, just asking a question will only give you an answer.