I'll convert to islam if you can show me.

[Poetic_Soul]

I'll convert to Islam if you can show me one thing in the Quran. Show me anywhere in the Quran where allah loves me.

[kateliz]

Have you read it and so concluded that it's not in there? I don't know, I'm just asking. I tried to read some of it once several years ago, but whatever I read didn't make sense to me. Has anyone here read it and understood it? Or was I just plain stupid? Honest question.

[Anonymous]

G'Day Poetic Soul...

You know Allah hears all. Love from the Creator is conditional.

[quote]I'll convert to Islam if you can show me one thing in the Quran. Show me anywhere in the Quran where Allah loves me.[/quote]

3:29. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Whether you hide what is in your breasts or reveal it, Allâh knows it, and He knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth. And Allâh is Able to do all things."

3:30. On the Day when every person will be confronted with all the good he has done, and all the evil he has done, he will wish that there were a great distance between him and his evil. And Allâh warns you against Himself (His Punishment) and Allâh is full of Kindness to the (His) slaves.

3:31. Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): "If you (really) love Allâh then follow me (i.e. accept Islâmic Monotheism, follow the Qur'ân and the Sunnah), Allâh will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

3:32. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers.

34. ...and Allâh is the All-Hearer, All-Knower.

[Poetic_Soul]

I'm refering to an unconditional love. A love that is filled with intimacy and personal. A love where allah would go above and beyond anything to redeem me from my mistakes. A love so strong that he would go out of his way just to get my attention. A love so real that I can feel it from the depths of my heart and soul. A love so true that I am no longer concidered a slave but a friend. A love so powerful that if I should turn my back on him; his love still remains.

You see, while we were yet still sinners Christ first loved us before we could ever love him. Only Christ can love like that. In order to prove you love someone, you must act upon what you love. Christ did that, on the cross. And this is something allah could never do.

[Anonymous]

G'Day Poetic_Soul

I'm refering to an unconditional love.

A love where allah would go above and beyond anything to redeem me from my mistakes. A love so strong that he would go out of his way just to get my attention.

I seek refuge in Allah just to hear what you have spoken. Are you God and He the creature? Are you the creator of all or He?

In order to prove you love someone, you must act upon what you love.

Correct. and you have been ordered accordingly...

Mk12:28…"Which is the first of all the commandments?"

29 Jesus replied, "The first is this: 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone!

30 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

Christ did that, on the cross. And this is something allah could never do.

Perish the thought. I hope not. God cannot die. He is the Eternal creator. And we are all just his slaves. Mere creatures who hope in his mercy on That Day.

[Deborah]

*sigh*
The spirit can not die, the body made from dust dies!
What we see in the mirror every morning is only a shell.

While the soul doesn't die, it might as well if it is separated from god for eternity.

God as jesus made the greatest sacrifice any parent can make for their children, it was like a new start, and he even provided himself as a rolemodel. He proved it is possible to be human and live rightiously.

While god unconditionally loves ALL his children, he will not invite those who are not rightious to spend eternity with him.

We are all what we are, gods word says he wants his children to come to him by their own choice, best thing we can all do is be the best children of God we can be. Live our lives by the rightious examples set for us and know god has plans for all of us.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

He uses the Bible when it suits him....funny.

I seek refuge in Allah just to hear what you have spoken. Are you God and He the creature? Are you the creator of all or He?

I think you misunderstand him....you answered his question on unconditional love by talking about conditional love...he's trying to explain to you what unconditional love (I think) since it didn't seem to get across to you the first time around.

[Anonymous]

G'Day AttentionKMartShoppers

I think you misunderstand him....you answered his question on unconditional love by talking about conditional love...he's trying to explain to you what unconditional love (I think) since it didn't seem to get across to you the first time around.

Matt 5:20 I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 12:50 For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'

23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you.

11 Depart from me, you evildoers.'

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for the judgment to begin with the household of God; if it begins with us, how will it end for those who fail to obey the gospel of God?

18 "And if the righteous one is barely saved, where will the godless and the sinner appear?"

Luke 13:23 Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few people be saved?" He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough.

2 Cor13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye are in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye are reprobates?

1 Peter 10:6 Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your call and election firm, for, in doing so, you will never stumble.

Heb 12 Take care, brothers, that none of you may have an evil and unfaithful heart, so as to forsake the living God.

13 Encourage yourselves daily while it is still "today," so that none of you may grow hardened by the deceit of sin.

Heb 4:1 Therefore, let us be on our guard while the promise of entering into his rest remains, that none of you seem to have failed.

4:2 For in fact we have received the good news just as they did. But the word that they heard did not profit them, for they were not united in faith with those who listened.

Ps. 12:1"Help, Lord, for the godly man ceaseth: for the faithful fail among the children of men".

Luke 12:32jesus said "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give unto you the kingdom".

John 5:40-3 But you do not want to come to me to have life. "I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.

[Poetic_Soul]

[quote="muhammad"]G'Day Poetic Soul...

You know Allah hears all. Love from the Creator is conditional.

The love from my God is Un-conditional. Regardless of my flaws, downfalls and/or shortcomings. Reason being is that He took the time to understand who I am. Jesus knows what it's like to be weak. To cry. To lose a loved one. To have friends abandon him. God knows what it's like;....to be human. And that is in the identity of Christ Jesus. Allah couldn't comprehend this because he never experienced what humans go through. Where as God (in the flesh) came off His throne to understand who I am. And to make all of my wrongs into right.

[Felgar]

Assuming you can accept your prior post as truth, if you only took the time to understand the meaning of all those verses muhammad, you'd be a Christian!

Re-read them, keeping these two fundamental truths in mind:

Romans 5:8-9
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

Romans 3:22-24
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Thanks for posting muhammad, I'm learning a lot about your beliefs.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

You seem to be tearing verses from the Bible to make a patchwork quilt that you designed....

[Deborah]

ok this your god my god stuff is cr*p!
It's one god!
Islam formed from the same line as christianity. (it was split from the israelites) Therefore it's the same god!
The only difference between the three religions who all believe in the same God is that the Islamic and Jewish religions understanding of god limits his power, and that is a contradiction of Almighty God.

God came as Jesus to show two split religions how to once again be one and find their way back to living in his grace. (they both fell from his path) He even provided a model on how this could be achieved.

[Dan]

ok this your god my god stuff is cr*p!
It's one god!
Islam formed from the same line as christianity. (it was split from the israelites) Therefore it's the same god!
The only difference between the three religions who all believe in the same God is that the Islamic and Jewish religions understanding of god limits his power, and that is a contradiction of Almighty God.

God came as Jesus to show two split religions how to once again be one and find their way back to living in his grace. (they both fell from his path) He even provided a model on how this could be achieved.

Islam didn't exist until hundreds of years after Jesus Christ walked the Earth They claimed the Bible was corrupted even though overwhelming archeological evidence points to the contrary, that the Bible has remained true to it's original form for thousands of years.

[August]

Also, they don't believe in the Trinity.

[kateliz]

What we're saying here, Muhammad, is that what we see in the Christian God is something eternally precious that your view of Allah doesn't have. This thing is what makes our lives worth living for us. We don't want to serve such a demanding, love-less taskmaster as your Allah. Nor could we love such a one as that.

I understand what you're getting at, though I don't agree. Our God, just as you've pointed out with the very words we believe He inspired to be written, does want our obedience. No father wants rebellious children who do what they detest and can't stand to be around or put up with. You say Allah wants our obedience and good behavior just as God does. Fine. We would all agree.

The difference is what the Poet intended to bring forward in the first place: that the Christian God we love and serve has compassion and a personal relationship with us, whereas the Allah you serve, (and love???) accepts us, not loves us, and only if we satisfy him. We have bosses on earth to satisfy with our works so that we may be acceptable to them; we Christians don't want our boss (Father) in heaven to be like that to us too.

Be honest here please, you'd rather serve a compassionate and caring and forgiving God, wouldn't you? It's infinitly more pleasant than a cold taskmaster, which is how you're presenting your Allah, and which is what the Qur'an verses you shared say. Despite what we want from God, though, there's the question of what He really is like.

You believe Jesus is a prophet. So do we. How are you so sure this prophet you so highly respect is not God or Allah incarnate in a bodily form? Christians point to proven historical proof when we say that Jesus was indeed God incarnate. Numerous witnesses of Jesus' miracles who didn't want to accept Him for who He was attributed them to Satan, because they coudln't deny they happened. You probably fully believe in His miracles too. This I don't doubt.

Why then do you doubt the greatest miracle this prophet performed? His resurrection from the dead and subsequent forty days on earth in His new heavenly body was witnessed by countless people just like His other miracles, which you believe in. Why not this His greatest miracle?

I'm assuming that you don't like how Christians always emphasize our God's forgiveness. I fully understand that. You believe your Allah should be a fair judge, putting forth judgement and punishment where it's due. Right you are. Every unrighteous deed and thought and intent of heart deserves it's just punishment. You know, however, that the Christian view of God says that every person who believes in His Christ has had their judgement and consequent punishments put all on this Christ. That was His purpose in Christ's existence and doing all He did on earth.

We Christians rightfully deserve the death our God says is due us because of our sin. We are judged accordingly and the punishment is awarded us. Only, the one who held out His Hands to accept it for us is One who wants to pay the death sentence for us. God says our sins must be paid for, because He is a righteous Judge who demands payment. He cannot have it any other way because of who He is. However, One is willing to take the responsibility of our actions, and by taking responsibility willingly takes the consequences.

God put all of His righteous anger and His fierceness as Judge against our unrighteousness onto the One who takes blame for us. When we think of our Christ on that cross for us, we should, instead of only thinking of God's compassion and forgiveness, think of His righteous anger and just vengence as well. The anger He expressed in that moment is incomprehensible to any human. God's Word says He quenched His anger against the sin of those who accept this as for themselves in that moment.

We got our just deserves, in Christ. This is the compassion that we so strongly love in our Father, that He chose to be the one who would pay our penalty through His Son incarnate, and put all of that anger on part of Himself.

If you believe that our belief in the Trinity is contradictory to Allah being one, then it's simply a matter of misunderstanding. Imagine you own your own buisness where you produce a product. Now imagine in your buisness you are able to take on the roles of president, treasurer, and you also participate in making the product yourself. This is what the Trinity is like.

People like to say they are the three parts of God, and I like to think of them more as the three positions God has taken on so that He can interact in a particular way with His Children. Each "part" is actually a different way to interact with us.

You have the Father part of God, where He is able to relate to His Children as children, who is also the Judge part and the part who thought up Creation. Then you have the Son part who made the Creation, interacts with the Father's Children as Brother and Sister, and becoming like the Brothers and Sisters that God raised to the same level as His first Son, He was able to serve the sentence the Judge part of the Father served to us. And then there's the Holy Spirit part, which I think of as God's Spirit itself, and not separate from it in the way most Christians seem to think of it as. God is Spirit, and this is His Spirit, who acts as a spirit in joining with our own spirits when we accept this relationship, and acts on earth as the Spirit of God would influencing and arranging things as He does.

So you see, there is no contradiction in saying our God is One, as we do, and believing in the Trinity, which is merely to say God has chosen as One to have three different ways to interact with us.

This is a lot, I know, and I believe I'm done for now, at least, so here I'll quit. Please read this with your heart as well as your head, for both are needed to work together in determining truth.