Can science and faith really coexist? Please convince me...

[ManOfScience]

Oh, not this argument again.. Like Darwinian evolution has the monopoly on science? It's not faith based? Please..

Actually, no, Darwinian evolution is based on knowledge acquired through observation. This is the definition of science! Faith doesn't come into it.

[B. W.]

Oh, not this argument again.. Like Darwinian evolution has the monopoly on science? It's not faith based? Please..

Actually, no, Darwinian evolution is based on knowledge acquired through observation. This is the definition of science! Faith doesn't come into it.

National Socialism followed Darwian thought to its logical conclusions...

(Which by the way is observable)
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[Gman]

Oh, not this argument again.. Like Darwinian evolution has the monopoly on science? It's not faith based? Please..

Actually, no, Darwinian evolution is based on knowledge acquired through observation. This is the definition of science! Faith doesn't come into it.

Sorry, Darwinism is not science. It's a religious faith based philosophy... No one was there to witness it occurring.

[touchingcloth]

National Socialism followed Darwian thought to its logical conclusions...

No - it followed an odd perception of artifical selection to its "logical" conclusion.

Godwin's Law never fails.

[ManOfScience]

No one was there to witness it occurring.

What on earth do you mean, "No one was there?" It's occurring NOW! Open your eyes, and you just might see it! There are plenty of examples of where evolution can be seen in action: isolated lakes, Madagascar*, even in petri dishes in the lab.

* Absolutely fantastic place. I can't recommend it highly enough, if you want to see some of the world's unique wildlife.

[Gman]

No one was there to witness it occurring.

What on earth do you mean, "No one was there?" It's occurring NOW! Open your eyes, and you just might see it! There are plenty of examples of where evolution can be seen in action: isolated lakes, Madagascar*, even in petri dishes in the lab.

* Absolutely fantastic place. I can't recommend it highly enough, if you want to see some of the world's unique wildlife.

Open your eyes... Unfortunately there is no empirical evidence for Darwinism. It's simply a belief or an assumption.

Sorry...

[ManOfScience]

Unfortunately there is no empirical evidence for Darwinism. It's simply a belief or an assumption.

I know you'd find a way to discredit or disbelieve it even if it were directly under your nose, but, anyway, here are two pieces of empirical evidence for you:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... petri-dish

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/ ... 2009-10-18

[Byblos]

I know you'd find a way to discredit or disbelieve it even if it were directly under your nose, but, anyway, here are two pieces of empirical evidence for you:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... petri-dish

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/ ... 2009-10-18

In one case it's an example of adaptation and in the other mutation but, after 40,000 generations, bacteria remained bacteria. Classic micro-evolution, nothing new there.

[ManOfScience]

In one case it's an example of adaptation and in the other mutation but, after 40,000 generations, bacteria remained bacteria. Classic micro-evolution, nothing new there.

Ah, so it's an example of speciation you want. Here's one:

http://www.genetics.org/cgi/content/full/163/3/939

Although I still say the lemurs of Madagascar have to be the cutest example.

[Byblos]

In one case it's an example of adaptation and in the other mutation but, after 40,000 generations, bacteria remained bacteria. Classic micro-evolution, nothing new there.

Ah, so it's an example of speciation you want. Here's one:

http://www.genetics.org/cgi/content/full/163/3/939

I certainly hope you're not hanging your speciation hopes on the link you provided. Let me quote a small paragraph:

Two host-associated traits have been shown to be primarily responsible for isolating R. pomonella group flies. First, because Rhagoletis adults court and mate exclusively on or near the fruit of their host plants (PROKOPY et al. 1971 Down, PROKOPY et al. 1972 Down), differences in host preference behaviors translate directly into mate choice decisions and premating isolation (PROKOPY et al. 1988 Down; FEDER et al. 1994 Down). Mark-release recapture experiments have indicated that host-specific mating partially isolates the apple and hawthorn races of R. pomonella, reducing gene flow to ~4—6%/generation (FEDER et al. 1994 Down, FEDER et al. 1998 Down). In comparison, host-specific mating appears to constitute a near-complete premating barrier between the sibling species R. pomonella and R. mendax (FEDER and BUSH 1989A Down).

Do you see what this is saying? Basically that the mating habits of the different groups of flies are dependent on the their respective host plants. Once a group adapts to its new host, evidence shows that it will stop (maybe) mating with the other group; the article calls it near-complete premating barrier). Re-introduce one group to its old host and given enough time for re-adaptation, what do you think the result will be?

Please tell me you have something else.

Although I still say the lemurs of Madagascar have to be the cutest example.

Cute? Maybe (eye of the beholder). Evidence of speciation? Hardly.

[ManOfScience]

Cute? Maybe (eye of the beholder). Evidence of speciation? Hardly.

How is it that, when Madagascar separated from India, all the lemurs knew to get on the Malagasy side of the split? Did King Julien XIII draw a line in the sand and say, "Right! All lemurs remain on this side of the line, please!"?

[touchingcloth]

Not to mention the mass migration of marsupials (I guess they used to master boat-makers, but gradually lost the skill) to Oz.

[B. W.]

Not to mention the mass migration of marsupials (I guess they used to master boat-makers, but gradually lost the skill) to Oz.

Do Lemurs really follow other Lemurs off a cliff
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[touchingcloth]

No sure, but I know that lemmings do - computer games told me.

[B. W.]

No sure, but I know that lemmings do - computer games told me.

Well, there goes Darwinian theory of survival of the species out the door…

Then there are Parrie Dogs…
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