Bring it on!!!Mastermind wrote:Man, people today are afraid of war like it was Satan himself. I guess humanity has been getting weaker over the centuries.
I'll convert to islam if you can show me.
I believe there is a Force, a Power greater than us who created all things. It just makes sense to me from everything I have read about the formation of the universe so far ... Who, what, where, how, why are just mysteries that every human being speculates about and is desperate to know and writes holy books about (the Bible, the Qu'ran,etc). So they create religions and they create a "God" who is on their side and is somewhat familiar to them so they can feel safe and comforted that they are going to "heaven" when they die and hopefully make life on earth a little less ... uncertain.
I look at human beings and I marvel ... we have so much potential in ourselves but we are constantly seeking the "Divine Other" to animate us. We have the Divine Other in us ... He gave us all we need! Didn't Jesus say the kingdom of heaven is within you? We are created by Him. We just don't use it ... we don't explore our own souls ... like Jesus would have us do. He told the Jews love your neighbor as yourself. He also said "love God with all your heart, etc." He had to say that ... their belief in Jehovah of the Hebrews was so deeply entrenched and formed in their minds that Jesus had to first mention the UNKNOWN, then move on to the things right in front of their faces. Like truly loving and caring about your neighbor. They killed him because he opposed religion. He never wanted a religion created from him. He wanted to free us from religion to live by our Light, the Light the Creator put inside of us. But no, man had to turn around and create Christianity and enslave people to that form of belief with all its offshoots.
So when discussing about whether one should be a Muslim or Christian, Buddhist or Taoist, Jew or atheist, what I am saying is ... it is futile to assign yourself a label like that because NOBODY REALLY KNOWS FOR CERTAIN ABOUT ANYTHING. We are human beings. Truth is revealed to us in the moment ... and we should live fully in each moment we are given and let "heaven" take care of itself.
Wouldn't it be wonderful at the "Second Coming of Christ" if he found Muslim and Jew and Christian and Buddhist and African and Caucasian and Asian and everyone in between living side by side in peace? That we used our intellect and our hearts and our technology and power to understand each other and build bridges instead of digging the chasms between us deeper? He would say to himself ... they found the kingdom of heaven within them. My words did not come back to me void.
I look at human beings and I marvel ... we have so much potential in ourselves but we are constantly seeking the "Divine Other" to animate us. We have the Divine Other in us ... He gave us all we need! Didn't Jesus say the kingdom of heaven is within you? We are created by Him. We just don't use it ... we don't explore our own souls ... like Jesus would have us do. He told the Jews love your neighbor as yourself. He also said "love God with all your heart, etc." He had to say that ... their belief in Jehovah of the Hebrews was so deeply entrenched and formed in their minds that Jesus had to first mention the UNKNOWN, then move on to the things right in front of their faces. Like truly loving and caring about your neighbor. They killed him because he opposed religion. He never wanted a religion created from him. He wanted to free us from religion to live by our Light, the Light the Creator put inside of us. But no, man had to turn around and create Christianity and enslave people to that form of belief with all its offshoots.
So when discussing about whether one should be a Muslim or Christian, Buddhist or Taoist, Jew or atheist, what I am saying is ... it is futile to assign yourself a label like that because NOBODY REALLY KNOWS FOR CERTAIN ABOUT ANYTHING. We are human beings. Truth is revealed to us in the moment ... and we should live fully in each moment we are given and let "heaven" take care of itself.
Wouldn't it be wonderful at the "Second Coming of Christ" if he found Muslim and Jew and Christian and Buddhist and African and Caucasian and Asian and everyone in between living side by side in peace? That we used our intellect and our hearts and our technology and power to understand each other and build bridges instead of digging the chasms between us deeper? He would say to himself ... they found the kingdom of heaven within them. My words did not come back to me void.
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Mastermind
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No, although it is a common misconception. Our society values its own skin above everything else. Believe it or not, the world hasn't always been this way.atheist wrote:Aren't Christians supposed to hate war?Man, people today are afraid of war like it was Satan himself. I guess humanity has been getting weaker over the centuries.
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Mastermind
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Don't be ig'nant Mastermind.The NT says nothing about war.
What these verses says about war (to me at least) is that war that is for the purpose of conerting non-Christians is wrong (there are probably other things these verses talk about, but I'm on the warpath...). We are supposed to use other means (what they are, I don't understand at the moment, other than prayer and witnessing....).2 Corinthians 10 3-5
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war (H)according to the flesh, for the (I)weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful (J)for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every (K)lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the (L)obedience of Christ,
There's also a verse where Peter says our battle is not against the flesh but the spirit-which seems to say, on the topic, the basic thing that the above verses say-we aren't supposed to Crusade, we shouldn't war for the purpose of forcing Christianity on others.
Now, as to when war is right, I have to go at the moment, but I'll leave you with some of what I remember with Schaeffer-war and civil disobedience are valid methods of defending one's faith when they are the last means, or not being disobedient to man would be disobedience to God. For example, Christians were very disobedient under Roman rule. They were supposed to worship pagan gods, and they disobeyed and were slowly burned to death as human torches, crucified, and killed in a number of more imaginative ways. Also, the wars between Catholics and Protestants seem valid because Protestants were defending there ability to worship God the way they wanted, not the way the Catholics wanted them to (probably a too general statement about several wars....).
http://www.bible.com/answers/awar.html
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
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Mastermind
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Not a pacifist, and I wasn't trying to find arguments for pacificsm...
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
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Mastermind
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AttentionKMartShoppers
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It accomplished its purpose, pipe down.... (please, someone go find Mastermind and slap him, he likes to insult me wherever I post...).
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
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Anonymous
Ok let's do some breaking down here...
Jesus implied he was God many times.
Seedling, I find it strange how you refer to Jesus's teachings yet deny his divinity which he implied many times.
As for Islam, well if your gonna call Jesus a prophet well then why not actually listen to what He said. It also isn't an issue of interpretation, just a matter of tighter analysis.
Jesus implied he was God many times.
Seedling, I find it strange how you refer to Jesus's teachings yet deny his divinity which he implied many times.
As for Islam, well if your gonna call Jesus a prophet well then why not actually listen to what He said. It also isn't an issue of interpretation, just a matter of tighter analysis.
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kateliz
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Christians and War
Bravo, vvart!
On war and peace I've come to believe that Christians aren't supposed to be involved in government? If they are to war with prayer, not against the flesh of other governments but against the demons behind them, then they are to put on spiritual armor instead of physical armor? Christians in the government find themselves having to say "yea" or "nay" to war, and according to scripture they are to fight it with prayer, (and preaching and teaching of course.) How can you reconcile these too? I'm not sure. Jesus taught us to act in accordance with peace and not be violent, and Paul teaches us to war with prayer. If Christians weren't in the government, then the problem would be solved; go into your innermost chamber to war against demons. I don't know if I fully agree with this though. I doesn't seem practical to my mind; but maybe I'm just lacking faith.
On war and peace I've come to believe that Christians aren't supposed to be involved in government? If they are to war with prayer, not against the flesh of other governments but against the demons behind them, then they are to put on spiritual armor instead of physical armor? Christians in the government find themselves having to say "yea" or "nay" to war, and according to scripture they are to fight it with prayer, (and preaching and teaching of course.) How can you reconcile these too? I'm not sure. Jesus taught us to act in accordance with peace and not be violent, and Paul teaches us to war with prayer. If Christians weren't in the government, then the problem would be solved; go into your innermost chamber to war against demons. I don't know if I fully agree with this though. I doesn't seem practical to my mind; but maybe I'm just lacking faith.
Hi vvart,
"Father, take this cup away from me."
"Pray to your Father in heaven."
"Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall by no means pass away. But concerning that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens nor the son, but the Father only."
"My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?"
I know that Jesus said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." This doesn't mean that Jesus is saying he is God.
I also know the verse in Isaiah ("[the child] he shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God"), and also in John ("in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God ... and the Word became flesh and lived among us.") This is one of the reasons I don't put all my trust and faith in a book written 2000 years ago ... man's exhuberance, translation problems ... I have a spirit, I can discern the words in any book. I don't quite understand what Isaiah and John were trying to say ... but I know Jesus NEVER said he was God or even hinted at it. It was man that wanted to make him God and put him up on a pedestal and worship him and then turn around and say, "see, he was perfect, we can never be like him in our lifetime" ...so we settle for mediocrity. And thus goes the Christian world.
Islam just might view Jesus more honestly than Christianity does. Although they don't have the slightest clue what he was trying to convey. All they see is the healing and the miracles.
Just my take on it ...
"Father, take this cup away from me."
"Pray to your Father in heaven."
"Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall by no means pass away. But concerning that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens nor the son, but the Father only."
"My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?"
I know that Jesus said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." This doesn't mean that Jesus is saying he is God.
I also know the verse in Isaiah ("[the child] he shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God"), and also in John ("in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God ... and the Word became flesh and lived among us.") This is one of the reasons I don't put all my trust and faith in a book written 2000 years ago ... man's exhuberance, translation problems ... I have a spirit, I can discern the words in any book. I don't quite understand what Isaiah and John were trying to say ... but I know Jesus NEVER said he was God or even hinted at it. It was man that wanted to make him God and put him up on a pedestal and worship him and then turn around and say, "see, he was perfect, we can never be like him in our lifetime" ...so we settle for mediocrity. And thus goes the Christian world.
Islam just might view Jesus more honestly than Christianity does. Although they don't have the slightest clue what he was trying to convey. All they see is the healing and the miracles.
Just my take on it ...