Is Jesus-Christ the Word of God or the Bible?

[Zebulon]

The Jews crucified Jesus through the Romans. At the time of Jesus' crucifixion, the Romans had conquered all the area in which Jesus lived and taught. The Romans allowed the Jews to continue with their Sanhedrin (their government), but the Romans took away capital punishment from the Jews. In order to have Jesus crucified, the Jewish leaders had to manipulate Rome into doing it. First, the Jewish leaders had to lie - make up charges (Lk. 23: 2, 3). The Jewish leaders persisted in their demands for crucifixion (vss. 5-19). New Testament writers charged the Jews with having crucified Jesus (Acts 2: 36, 3: 13-17).

The Jews did not crucify Jesus, their government did (Sanhedrin+Scribes+Pharasees) with the use of the other goverment of the time, the Romans' Ceasar.

I will come back later if I am still alive on this forum...

I have to go out for some life responsibilities

Zebulon

[cslewislover]

Zeb, I saw that posted on the other thread, and I will be deleting it since it doesn't belong there.

But . . . where did you quote this from???? You have it in your other post like you wrote it, yet you're debating it, are you not? And you don't cite it. You need to provide WHO you are quoting; we need to know where it's from.

[Canuckster1127]

Nobody took Christ's life from Him. He gave it, even noting on the Cross that it was Him that rendered it, by saying "Into your hands I commit my spirit." The circumstances of the politics and ethnicity of those crucifying him in his day were secondary to what he accomplished on the cross and why.

The Word (logos) is Christ. The Bible points us toward Him.

[Zebulon]

Zeb, I saw that posted on the other thread, and I will be deleting it since it doesn't belong there.

But . . . where did you quote this from???? You have it in your other post like you wrote it, yet you're debating it, are you not? And you don't cite it. You need to provide WHO you are quoting; we need to know where it's from.

You are right, here is the link: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... ocity.html

And yes it is probably from a anti-religious site, that does'nt mean I take their belief for granted, on the contrary.

And yes I am in a way debating it; thus like I have told you in another tread: one has the right to question his government, his pastor, his own beliefs, the pope and even the bible. Anything from this physical world. Therefore I do not question the Father and/as Jesus-Christ.

It is not easy.

Zebulon

[cslewislover]

Is the quote in your first post above from that site, or here???

[Zebulon]

Nobody took Christ's life from Him. He gave it, even noting on the Cross that it was Him that rendered it, by saying "Into your hands I commit my spirit." The circumstances of the politics and ethnicity of those crucifying him in his day were secondary to what he accomplished on the cross and why.

The Word (logos) is Christ. The Bible points us toward Him.

Canuckster, I have no doughts about this, still that the Bible is my main source. It is a source not The Source.

Zebulon

[cslewislover]

And your point seems so odd to me. Bart is correct in what he is saying, but to make a point . . . Someone could say that "The Americans bombed Hiroshima" and most everyone would understand that it was the government that did it, and not all the Americans themselves. So what is the point?? To me, there is none. Many of the Jewish leaders wanted Jesus dead, and they were able to manipulate things so it happened - and like Bart said - it was supposed to happen. Just like with the Americans and Hiroshima, I'm sure there were a certain percent of people that agreed with the government and a certain amount who didn't. So what is the point? That we shouldn't hate the Jews, or the Americans? Of course we shouldn't. Is there some other point to this??

[cslewislover]

Nobody took Christ's life from Him. He gave it, even noting on the Cross that it was Him that rendered it, by saying "Into your hands I commit my spirit." The circumstances of the politics and ethnicity of those crucifying him in his day were secondary to what he accomplished on the cross and why.

The Word (logos) is Christ. The Bible points us toward Him.

Canuckster, I have no doughts about this, still that the Bible is my main source. It is a source not The Source.

Zebulon

Zeb, this is your opinion, yet you're stating it as fact. The bible itself says what Bart wrote, in the beginning of the Gospel of John. So you will have to show that that text is wrong. There is much evidence against you, and it is up to you to prove the scholars wrong.

[Zebulon]

Is there some other point to this??

Sure Csewislover but I will have to come back, my wife just came back from work and I want to be with her for a while. It is also supper time here

See you guys later.

Zebulon

[Zebulon]

There is much evidence against you, and it is up to you to prove the scholars wrong.[/color]

Sorry the scholars whoever they are I do not have to prove them right or wrong it is not my intention. One thing to me is sure, the scholars are from this world.

Be back later.

Zebulon

[cslewislover]

There is much evidence against you, and it is up to you to prove the scholars wrong.[/color]

Sorry the scholars whoever they are I do not have to prove them right or wrong it is not my intention. One thing to me is sure, the scholars are from this world.

Be back later.

Zebulon

Yes, but so are you (from this world), so why should anyone take your word for it over more than 2,000 years of history, tradition, research, etc.? Yes, you do need to prove something if want someone to believe you or take you seriously. Otherwise, I don't know why you're posting. You should read the site purpose and guidelines.

[cslewislover]

Zeb, you still haven't provided me with the source of your original quote. It doesn't seem to be from that Atheist site.

It's unfortunate, as well, that you find it necessary to post a hugely long copy from an Atheist site here (which is on that other thread), like you are trying to prove that the bible is not reliable. Either it is, or it isn't. Either God spoke to us or He didn't - you can't pick and choose what you personally like out of it. You are not asking questions and inquiring, you are only telling us how you are right and everyone else is wrong.

From the Board Purpose (in part): "But I see so many distortions... I just want to enlighten others with my knowledge! If you feel this strongly it is likely what you have to say will likely not be appreciated or accepted. So please respect the desire[d] purpose of this message board. There are many other places on the Internet where one can enter into debate." From Discussion Guidelines: "'Board Purpose:' This board is a part of Evidence for God from Science (G&S), a Christian website, which serves to provide a defense and persuasive case for Christianity as well as encouragement and instruction for Christian people and seekers. It is important that everyone who participates on this board is aware of our board purpose."


There are many articles at the main site dealing with bible origins and reliability. Here are a few:

History of the Bible: How The Bible Came To Us

Is Our Copy of the Bible a Reliable Copy of the Original?

Is Christianity a Made-up Myth Written by the Disciples?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I think it would be a good idea if Zeb explained who is «The Source» if it is not the Bible:

...the Bible is my main source. It is a source not The Source.

Onto other things:

Nobody took Christ's life from Him. He gave it, even noting on the Cross that it was Him that rendered it, by saying "Into your hands I commit my spirit."

Canuckster is correct, no earthly power took Jesus' life, He gave it willingly as redemption for our sins and God - speaking through Zechariah 500+ years before the cross - said:

«Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is close to me!» declares the Lord Almighty. «Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones.»*

Now, listen to Jesus paraphrasing Zechariah above:

I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered.**

Who is the «I» in Jesus' paraphrase? ...The «I» is God Himself. Hence, God Himself sacrified Jesus on the cross.

FL

*Zech. 13:7
**Mk. 14:27b

[Zebulon]

Zeb, you still haven't provided me with the source of your original quote. It doesn't seem to be from that Atheist site.

Sorry Cslewislover, here it is: http://www.biblequestions.org/archives/BQAR067.htm

Good night

Zebulon

[Zebulon]

Yes, but so are you (from this world)

Hummmm, not sure anymore. Maybe I had been better to say that we are from heaven and decided to come to flech in this world, by the influence of the serpent? And therefore we have to follow Christ if we want to go back as newly reborn by him? Am I mistaking?

so why should anyone take your word for it over more than 2,000 years of history, tradition, research, etc.? Yes, you do need to prove something if want someone to believe you or take you seriously. Otherwise, I don't know why you're posting.

You told me to start a new tread. I started it. No one should take my word for anything or any reason, I am questionning, and I do not have to prove nothing at all

You should read the site purpose and guidelines.

Then where am I acting not accordingly?

Kindly,

Zebulon