Old Earth Problems?

[touchingcloth]

He's already said that he leans towards OEC

Old or young creationism is a crock of unscientific nonsense...YEC more so.

Why? Because you say so?

No.

[RickD]

Ok, I guess my question wasn't clear enough. That's probably my fault because I didn't word it correctly. My question was for those who believe in oec. I am making the assumption that if one believes in oec as this website supports, he/she is also a Bible believing born again believer. Maybe I assumed too much. I'm just looking for honest answers from oec believers. Touchingcloth, you don't seem to be the person I'm looking for answers from.

[Canuckster1127]

Ok, I guess my question wasn't clear enough. That's probably my fault because I didn't word it correctly. My question was for those who believe in oec. I am making the assumption that if one believes in oec as this website supports, he/she is also a Bible believing born again believer. Maybe I assumed too much. I'm just looking for honest answers from oec believers. Touchingcloth, you don't seem to be the person I'm looking for answers from.

Rickd. Not everyone who posts here is a Christian. If you check the profile you'll be able to see where people are coming from.

[RickD]

I realize, and accept that not everyone posting here is a Christian, but my question was directed to specifically an oec believer, not a non Christian who doesn't believe in creation. See, I did look at his profile.

[Canuckster1127]

Public discussion boards don't allow for that type of control as to who responds.

I'm happy to discuss with you however.

[RickD]

Canuckster, I like the quote you have from St. Augustine. It seems similar to What Hugh Ross believes is being done by some yec. They(yec) debate with nonbelievers about scientific issues, and drive people away from any belief in God.

[Canuckster1127]

RickD. I tend to agree with that, but in fairness I don't think all YEC's do that. Those that do that, tend to mistake their interpretation of the creation account with scripture itself.

[August]

Well, Henry Morris has made a life out of it, and while I don't see eye to eye with him and Hovind, give them credit for trying to be faithful to what they believe Scripture says, and for not subverting their faith to secularism.

[RickD]

RickD. I tend to agree with that, but in fairness I don't think all YEC's do that. Those that do that, tend to mistake their interpretation of the creation account with scripture itself.

Yes, that's why I said some. Specifically Ken Ham and Kent Hovind. I've heard more from those two than any others. There are probably many yec's that also believe Hugh Ross is a sincere Christian, but I have heard both Hovind and Ham say otherwise. They are 2 of the most famous YEC's that I'm aware of. I just think they haven't really looked at what Ross believes. They may have just assumed that since Ross didn't believe in their dogmatic view, that he wasn't a Christian.

[RickD]

Well, Henry Morris has made a life out of it, and while I don't see eye to eye with him and Hovind, give them credit for trying to be faithful to what they believe Scripture says, and for not subverting their faith to secularism.

I see what you're saying about their strong beliefs. I guess they(Hovind and Ham) just don't come across as humble and loving and patient with their views. It seems to me that Hugh Ross tells people the reasons why he believes what he does. Hovind and Ham seem to try to "convince" people and change peoples' minds in the flesh instead of letting the Holy Spirit do His work.

[erawdrah]

I am YEC and I do not doubt that Hugh Ross is a Christian. I know Hovind called him a heretic but I do understand what Hovind is so concerned about. Though, I do believe you can be OEC or YEC and be saved. I take the Bible literally and that includes a literal 6 day creation. I also believe that God is describing dinosaurs in Job. This is a very good question for OEC.

Welcome to the board.

[RickD]

I believe Hugh Ross also has stated that he believes in a literal 6 day creation. According to many Hebrew scholars, Yom has multiple literal meanings. Hovind made the call of heretic without knowing what Ross believes. That is what really bothered me. Thank you for your post erawdrah. Do you believe that the words day and earth as in the original text may have more than 1 literal meaning?

[Gman]

I see what you're saying about their strong beliefs. I guess they(Hovind and Ham) just don't come across as humble and loving and patient with their views. It seems to me that Hugh Ross tells people the reasons why he believes what he does. Hovind and Ham seem to try to "convince" people and change peoples' minds in the flesh instead of letting the Holy Spirit do His work.

I can't see how being OEC or YEC would effect one's salvation. Hovind and Ham say they adhere to a strict interpretation of the Bible but when you study it further, you find that they don't.

The years I've debated this topic on this forum, however, I would say that the YEC camp predominately does believe that your interpretation of Genesis or creation does in fact effect one's salvation. No all, but the majority I've encountered do even calling it satanic...

I still remember that debate between Ham and Ross. Ham was stoned faced the entire time and didn't even crack a smile once. A very strange individual.

[Gman]

I believe Hugh Ross also has stated that he believes in a literal 6 day creation. According to many Hebrew scholars, Yom has multiple literal meanings. Hovind made the call of heretic without knowing what Ross believes. That is what really bothered me.

Yep... Me too.

[RickD]

I see what you're saying about their strong beliefs. I guess they(Hovind and Ham) just don't come across as humble and loving and patient with their views. It seems to me that Hugh Ross tells people the reasons why he believes what he does. Hovind and Ham seem to try to "convince" people and change peoples' minds in the flesh instead of letting the Holy Spirit do His work.

I can't see how being OEC or YEC would effect one's salvation. Hovind and Ham say they adhere to a strict interpretation of the Bible but when you study it further, you find that they don't.

The years I've debated this topic on this forum, however, I would say that the YEC camp predominately does believe that your interpretation of Genesis or creation does in fact effect one's salvation. No all, but the majority I've encountered do even calling it satanic...

I still remember that debate between Ham and Ross. Ham was stoned faced the entire time and didn't even crack a smile once. A very strange individual.

Yes, Gman, that is exactly what Message I've been getting from those 2 yec's.