Leviticus 19:28 says Tatoos are a No No

[DannyM]

Danny,

God is going to present you without stain or wrinkle. And while this is obviously regarding spiritual cleanness, our new bodies will also be undefiled with any of the ways of man. Since you regret your tats, and God is going to wipe away every tear, I imagine you will be clean inside and out.

Jlay, as soon as I sent the post asking you what you meant I cottoned on. And I agree with you: the body will become a thing of perfection, wrinkle free as you say.

[DannyM]

Good for you! Just clean the hand and the neck and you're good to go. Turn the rest of the sleeve over to God as testimony for what He's doing in your life. In fact, have a couple brothers at church lay hands on it and pray it will be used by God to help others. Then you can put each person you share your testimony with in that way on that sleeve and it becomes Holy and good. That's how my God works . Something we regret gets used for the Holy work of helping others and before we know it we don't regret it anymore. It will end up being a plus in your life I know it. Peace.

Aga, just skimming through the threads before things get going here and I somehow missed this post. I hadn't thought of takikng it to church; I suppose I *could* get a couple of the brothers on it, when the crowd have gone, and pray to God. I'm not sure it's double necessary but it won't hurt! Good shout, Age, thanks. Peace to you brither.

[willevjas]

I guess I only took that scripture to mean if you marked your body for the dead, it was a sin. Like, people who put mom in a heart after she died.

[B. W.]

Lev 19:28, "Don't cut gashes in your flesh when someone dies or tattoo yourselves; I am Adonai." CJB

Jamison, Faussett, Brown Commentary states the reason below:

Lev 19:28

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead — The practice of making deep gashes on the face and arms and legs, in time of bereavement, was universal among the heathen, and it was deemed a becoming mark of respect for the dead, as well as a sort of propitiatory offering to the deities who presided over death and the grave.

The Jews learned this custom in Egypt, and though weaned from it, relapsed in a later and degenerate age into this old superstition (Isa 15:2; Jer16:6; Jer 41:5).nor print any marks upon you — by tattooing, imprinting figures of flowers, leaves, stars, and other fanciful devices on various parts of their person.

The impression was made sometimes by means of a hot iron, sometimes by ink or paint, as is done by the Arab females of the present day and the different castes of the Hindus. It is probable that a strong propensity to adopt such marks in honor of some idol gave occasion to the prohibition in this verse; and they were wisely forbidden, for they were signs of apostasy; and, when once made, they were insuperable obstacles to a return. (See allusions to the practice, Isa 44:5; Rev 13:17; Rev 14:1). JFBC

Note: Tattooing in some parts of the world, or painting the body, is still used like a talisman or a marking that they belong to an deity or deities they ascribe worth too and belong too. That is pretty much how the ancients used tattoos and why Lev 19:28 went forth

Question: is modern American style tattooing for the same purposes?

In my opinion: NOT.

So if you have Tattoos, you are not going to hell for it. It'll look pretty silly as you age and the skin wrinkles and sags! God's grace and the blood of Christ covers all sins, even the ones imposed by tattoos for whatever purposes one received them.
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[youngmatt]

Oh well i was thinking about getting a tattoo of like a verse from the bible but never mind that lol.

[zacchaeus]

Um, Its called PERSONAL CONVICTIONS... If the HS convicts you then to you and Him it is wrong. If your not convicted I cannot hold that against you. I can only tell you why I'm convicted and why I think it is wrong.

1)Our Body is a TEMPLE (Should be pleasing and holy to God)
2)Our Body is a gift given by God and belongs to HIM (We should not defile it)
3)Our Bodies are not our own (If you borrow someones car or rented a car from somewhere or someone, you wouldn't tear it up, wreck it, scratch, or go get a paint job)
4)We are to offer our Bodies as a living sacrifice
5)Marking our bodies intentionally causes ourselves physical bodily harm/pain and scars
6)God made us perfect in who and how we are (If we were meant to have tatts we would have already have them or been created with them)
7)The image(s) becomes an idol (The original reason for the law because people were making tatts in honoring/remembering the dead, but the dead are dead and they will bury themselves)

There is no diff in Jew and Gentile...

Look up the Pentateuch which is still for us today... the separation people try to make is who it was for in terms of people of Jew and Gentile, but there is no diff if there was then Gentiles wouldn't be able to get saved in the first place. We have to stop thinking scripture applies that way, things like this and scripture applies to the BELIEVER... that is the specified person. Again, it does apply to personal conviction, but...

[MarcusOfLycia]

Out of curiosity, based on what you said, what is your opinion of jewelry? It seems to violate all 7 of your standards for tattoos.

[PaulSacramento]

Like so many of the older Hebrews laws, this one was created to keep the Hebrews "distinct and pure" compared to the pagans that surrounded them and that they had day-to-day contact with.
How many here eat kosher? think shrimp to be an abomination? Think that stoning or being set on fire is punishment for adultery or sin?
None I wager.
Our body is indeed a temple and as such we should not compromise it in any way and FAR MORE compromising is drinking, smoking, eating unhealthy, not exercising, etc, etc, but how many here are guilty of such?
God does truly make us perfect, we have a mind, body and spirit, we are e in the image of God.
Yet we all LOOK different and not all of us are "normal" ( whatever that means) some of us are born handicapped, some become that way, some are born with mental issues, some become that way, we are not perfect because of appearences but because of God's grace.
If a person wishes to honour God and Christ by a tattoo if God's word on their body and they feel justified in faith to do so, then so be it.
It is between them and Christ.
How many are circumsised under YHWH here? according to OT law, one should be and yet...

Let us never forget that the intention of what we do, both good and bad, does account for lots.
When someone choose to, in their way, glorify God with a work of art on their flesh then it is truly between them and God.

[zacchaeus]

Okay... Here we go

Leviticus 19:28
the scripture in question says,
"Ye shall NOT make ANY CUTTINGS IN YOUR FLESH for the dead, NOR PRINT ANY MARKS UPON YOU: I AM THE LORD.

Leviticus is the book of the very detailed walk, worship, and service of the redeemed (believer) people of God. Its all part of Moses Law and God never came to do away with nor destroy, but to fulfill and in doing so it may be possible that through HIM we may keep what seems like the impossible; especially in today's society.

(Dt. 14:1)

Do not cut your flesh in honor of worship to any god. If it's important enough you feel the deranged need of an image on your arm for you and others to see, drawing attention to yourself (prideful and boastful as it may be); you've created a god or an idol. Its a pagan ritual that's roots come from Canaanite nations to cut the flesh in sincerity and earnestness of worship in form of prayer to idol gods. A way of the heathen and the heathen only cuts himself making lacerations (tats) in the flesh, not only as a symbol and mark of mourning the dead, but as an act of idolatrous worship.

Tattooing is practiced in and by many nations from the earliest of times, as well as markings with all kinds of paint and cuttings on and in the flesh. This is all connected to superstitions and any disfigrration of the body is an outrage to God and an insult to HIM who designed the body originally fearfully and wonderfully.

My stance on jewelry... maybe your meaning piercings? Where does wearing jewelry that's not a permanent fix defile our body, altering, causing physical harm, scars, idolatry, etc. the adherence may be a little loose to non fixed jewelry (which I don't personally wear any kind), but piercings I hold the same and yes to the same 7 reasons. You maybe thinking well in that case, okay I want get a tattoo per-say, but maybe I'll get a fake non-toxic water tattoo that will wash off in the shower within a week. I personally wouldn't and have no need to nor want to go through the trouble. Again, it really does boil down to a personal conviction. If you can honestly get a tattoo with no remorse or any doubt what so ever even after reading and partaken in this discussion and reading the scriptures, then good for you. (most times people have some sort of regret). I will not hold it against you. I will only tell you why I'm personally convicted. If you asked if its a sin I would personally say yes. And please don't question me if personal convictions changes the status of a particular sin still being and remaining a sin... I agree it is between you and God, and I cannot and will not judge or fault someone for something the HS has personally revealed or is working within an individual as oppose to another.

Note: As far as stoning for adultery sin, as a punishment for a crime, well there is divorce, taken of money, taken kids from one and giving to the other; I mean its a change in culture and societies laws, but law is still there none the less. May not be the equal in severity but its equal in a result or punishment towards a sin or crime. There is no difference in circumcised or non-circumcised, jew or gentile, man or woman. We have to understand times and time as a gift (measurement) only for humankind and man changes, but GOD never changes and remains the same. Just because the mass does something as a general rule of thumb doesn't change the status of sin and/or law. So your "how many here are guilty of such?" holds very little water. Those guilty of such will each and individually be dealt with, punished, etc. Example: No one goes the speed limit and in fact people will tell you its okay if everyone else is going faster then the speed-limit to just go with the flow of the traffic. Well, this number one doesn't change the risk of getting caught and pulled over by an officer, nor does it change the speed-limit law set just because the mass of everyone else. How many here are guilty of such? Does it change the fact that if you get caught you will be punished? NO!!! How many have got caught and say well I was just going the flow of the traffic only to hear the officer say yeah well you were going 15miles over the speed-limit and the speed-limit is 55 even if everyone else is not following it. You are responsible for you own individual actions.

It is a personal conviction.
Lets not get caught up in trying to please and worship God in our own way. God will not just accept any type of worship just because your intentions are good. That is the wrong advice in any manner and is a complete different topic that deserves its own forum posts. Ex: On the news the other day a Christian pole dancing club. Get real, yet there intentions were good so they say. Next someone will say we can smoke weed to worship GOD!!! When I was high and I read the bible it made so much more since and man I got really deep in the word, you know; yeah; totally; awesome... and God revealed Himself to me man; like I saw Him!!!!!!! Again, get real. Just be careful.

[Canuckster1127]

God's acceptance of us and our worship is not predicated upon how we perform.

Making extreme claims as to pole dancing or weed smoking is a logical fallacy often known as reductio absurdum. Illustrating extreme positions from the opposite perspective is not justification for extreme positions from the other direction.

That's my opinion anyway.

bart

[zacchaeus]

I'm not making an extreme claim, this is something really happening in Georgia. Its not an extreme position for these are real positions people hold, just the same as one whom doesn't live the lifestyle but claims their saved and you see no fruit. They say I don't have to read my bible nor go to church to be saved and have an effective relationship with God. They hold the assumptive status that they can do whatever but just because they believe in God or a god, and they are by association whatever religion denomination status of their parents and/or family. I'm guessing since they don't read the word they don't know that were not to forsake the gathering. I suppose since performance place no part we can curse in our worship songs since the intent and motive are right and the worship is specific and directed to God? Just my opinion. I'd like to think what I did say in my last post will be received well because after all my intentions were good and of course I made some valid points that I don't think can just be thrown out, especially not with no bad water. Just my opinion.

[Canuckster1127]

I didn't say extremes didn't exist. I simply noted that pointing out instances of antinomianism doesn't justify legalism.

[neo-x]

It is a personal conviction.
Lets not get caught up in trying to please and worship God in our own way. God will not just accept any type of worship just because your intentions are good.

I agree Zac. One is not to please God with his own logic as such a praise is not really what God looks for, and if someone does then it is between him and God, as you said.

Making extreme claims as to pole dancing or weed smoking is a logical fallacy often known as reductio absurdum. Illustrating extreme positions from the opposite perspective is not justification for extreme positions from the other direction.

But the Word is and I think he mentioned it. One can still follow scripture and not be legalistic, I mean how do we know one is not in legalism unless he surely denies sola fide. As long as we hold to a balance between following scripture and accepting God's grace, there is indeed no need for justification to anyone of doing something, except God.

Also, our perception of antinomianism today is based on what? At best it is subjective, or more based on sola fide or is claimed to nonetheless. Yet an extreme in this position (even if I can't make a justification for it following strictly the written word) will only result in more subjectivity where it will just break down to each one individually if he thinks what he does is right to please God, that is the same thing that kind of happened in the book of Judges, only difference is, they didn't had our grace. Still it happened because there was no standard of law applied or at least was subjective to interpretation by each one, even while the law existed with one sole interpretation of God.

The Bible says, God can only be worshiped in spirit, and without the spirit we can not worship him in truth. if we have the spirit than we will also abide in God's grace and his commands to us, that we may bear fruits of the spirit. And I seriously think that the more we do not mix in the world, the more we love God the less we will love earthly attraction, and I am not just talking about having tattoos, it can be a lot of things.

And this is not apostasy neither these verses have an audience of apostates but believers.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

I'd say, it pretty much tells me that at best we should not be mingling with the world that we become one of them, plain and simple. the rest is for each and everyone to decide for himself. Because to those who think that a lot of God's word doesn't apply to them because of grace, should never forget that what applies to them is the sole principle to justify one's behavior in the eyes of God and that is never subjected and it is Rom 14:23 "...everything that does not come from faith is sin." and without faith it is impossible to please God.

God bless

[Canuckster1127]

That sounds good, however when I examine Jesus' life directly in the Gospels I see a decidedly different emphasis and direction than selecting unrelated verses and stringing them together.

By definition, if we are in Christ then the Holy Spirit is within us. In areas where there is freedom Scripture tells us that we are to be fully convinced in our own minds. If any wish to use their freedom in such a manner that is up to them. Jesus followed a path different from the Pharisees of His day and he was called a drunkard and glutton by religious people for His troubles.

The end of John 5 is one of the most beautiful passages of Scripture where Jesus looks straight in the Pharisee's eyes and tells them they've searched the Scriptures and missed the Savior standing in front of them.

Jesus is the lens by which we ultimately understand Scripture and God. We can arrange verses to say most anything we want to say. When we look Jesus in the eyes and find Him, we've found everything.

[neo-x]

when I examine Jesus' life directly in the Gospels I see a decidedly different emphasis and direction than selecting unrelated verses and stringing them together.

Jesus sure selected a lot of unrelated verses and strung them together to show what he wanted to say and most of the time to the people around, it didn't make much sense. But by your statement was Jesus was doing something wrong?

By definition, if we are in Christ then the Holy Spirit is within us. In areas where there is freedom Scripture tells us that we are to be fully convinced in our own minds. If any wish to use their freedom in such a manner that is up to them. Jesus followed a path different from the Pharisees of His day and he was called a drunkard and glutton by religious people for His troubles.

The question is are we grieving the HS or not. As for Jesus, Yes, he chose a different path, but he was never drunk nor glutton, he wan't accused of such things because he did those things but because that was the way people around him were and yet for even their sake he never got drunk, did he? or are you suggesting otherwise.

The end of John 5 is one of the most beautiful passages of Scripture where Jesus looks straight in the Pharisee's eyes and tells them they've searched the Scriptures and missed the Savior standing in front of them.

Jesus is the lens by which we ultimately understand Scripture and God. We can arrange verses to say most anything we want to say. When we look Jesus in the eyes and find Him, we've found everything.

Yet scripture was the only way they were told that the messiah would come, your statement doesn't actually undermine the importance of the scripture which I am asserting, just concludes that they saw but didn't believe and that is true to Isiah's message, to what he prophesied.