Near death experiences and Christianity

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BavarianWheels
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by BavarianWheels »

jlay wrote:
Some believe that Jesus died for our sins - all of us. You did not have to know him for his sacrifice to affect you. You could be Buddhist, Jewish, etc and so on during this life but when you die you have a choice to accept his gift of salvation.
That is not consistent with the scriptures.
I gather what is meant is a death-bed-confession moments prior to actual death.
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PaulB007
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by PaulB007 »

I apologize for not providing to you specific accounts, but what can one say about a suicide victim who goes to a heaven like place and feels nothing but passion and love, but does not see God or Jesus? Why does a Buddhist see Budha, why does a Hindu see krishna? If people of third world nations or cultures where Jesus has never been seen or heard of, why does he not appear to them in their experiences?

Is there a possibility that all world religions were a fraud, and that there is something else out there that has simply just not been communicated to us humans? Anyone who wants to discount or say that it is all in your head, you also have to bring about proof for the experiences of those who can describe things in heaven who have been blind from birth, those who knows events happening in other hospital rooms, conversations, ect. Especially when doctors or other persons verify the person was *accurate* in their out of body observation. I'm not talking just in the same room here, but other rooms or areas. There is simply no naturalistic explanation for these, the only logical conclusion is the metaphysical. Any other explanation for these things is grasping at straws because you simply do not want to believe in any type of afterlife.
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B. W.
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by B. W. »

PaulB007 wrote:I apologize for not providing to you specific accounts, but what can one say about a suicide victim who goes to a heaven like place and feels nothing but passion and love, but does not see God or Jesus? Why does a Buddhist see Budha, why does a Hindu see krishna? If people of third world nations or cultures where Jesus has never been seen or heard of, why does he not appear to them in their experiences?

Is there a possibility that all world religions were a fraud, and that there is something else out there that has simply just not been communicated to us humans? Anyone who wants to discount or say that it is all in your head, you also have to bring about proof for the experiences of those who can describe things in heaven who have been blind from birth, those who knows events happening in other hospital rooms, conversations, ect. Especially when doctors or other persons verify the person was *accurate* in their out of body observation. I'm not talking just in the same room here, but other rooms or areas. There is simply no naturalistic explanation for these, the only logical conclusion is the metaphysical. Any other explanation for these things is grasping at straws because you simply do not want to believe in any type of afterlife.
So what would you specifically like to know from your statement above i.e. any one particular question you would like to investigate?
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by PaulB007 »

Well, to narrow it down more specifically, how can I serve a life to Christ if NDE accounts make me doubt any world religion is right since everyone seemingly gets a free pass to an afterlife?
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by B. W. »

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NDE

Near Death Experiences

PaulB007 wrote:Well, to narrow it down more specifically, how can I serve a life to Christ if NDE accounts make me doubt any world religion is right since everyone seemingly gets a free pass to an afterlife?
Before I answer question let me point to this website so you can get an idea who is writing this post.

When someone has such experiences several things must be kept in mind. First, the act of taking your last breath and then continuing on afterwards is, well, mildly put - overwhelming as you try to ascertain what is going on and what you are feeling.

There are usually two basic types of reported experiences. One involves feeling great elation, calm, peace and traveling somewhere. Another involves being escorted somewhere either terrifying or not allowed arrive at a final destination. One common theme of these two typical types is that the participants do not arrive at a destination.

They are traveling to it, or are told to return. That should queue you into something worth noting: the experience was interrupted. It is this interruption that is important. Why?

When one dies they encounter something going on and if not followed through to completion, a person can come back and only report on one half of the experience and miss the other half; this missing other half answers your question.

Image with me for a moment so you can get an idea about what I am trying to convey: You have an NDE. You take your last breath, float above your body feeling great peace, relief, as well as wonderful puzzlement. Then you enter a void realm seeing a light off in the distinct. You are traveling to it at the speed of thought.

While traveling, great love, joy is felt. Then you realize you are going somewhere. You arrive at an entry point and encounter a being. Suddenly you are resuscitated and re-enter your body. You did not stay at the entry point, for very long. It was interrupted. So you come back bearing a message of universalism. Is that correct a correct assumption?

The answer would be no because the experience was interrupted. You felt the great love and joy, etc, but did not have time to realize that this great love and joy you felt would be soon judging you for taking advantage of it, manipulating it, staining it by your actions and manner of life lived on earth.

You come back and report what? All is bliss because the experience was interrupted. Next also note that Satan and his minions can masquerade as angels of light. This means religious figures, or relatives, or people you know as well. A person may encounter such representations but due to the interruption, they do not realize the deception. So they report all is well after resuscitation.

Compound this with the feelings of joy, or love, peace, calm felt along the way and what would you report if your NDE was interrupted? If but given a bit more time, the true nature and reality of what was going on would be made known.

They would have eventually come into understanding that the very joy, love, peace, calm, mercy, compassion are the attributes of very God Himself being made manifest to a person and from this the reality of how you misuse, take advantage, defraud, deride God's goodness for your own pleasures is made fully known to you - without excuse. You entertain judgment then — (Hebrews 9:27)

This judgment can also come swiftly for others — almost immediately and their NDE's report being escorted to Hell or dropped in its confines. Then they are permitted to return. These do not get the fanfare as the positive NDE's do. Please note that more people die and continue on into full judgment than return back to life. Take that into account as well. What would they report?

What a person sows is what they'll reap (Job 34:11, 12). God's recompense is just, one person's affliction will be different than another, greater or lesser, but recompense it still is. Why? One lived life on earth basically manipulating, abusing, taking advantage, of God's own attributes of love, mercy, justice, peace, calm, faithfulness — deriding manipulating these in various ways.

Remember in this mortal life - God makes the good rain fall on the just and unjust — he is good to all and slow to anger…(Ecclesiastes 8:11, 12, 13) Note how the positive reported but interrupted NDE's attempt to get you to do this as well — take advantage of God's own goodness of character and nature.

These positive NDE report: No recompense all bliss, all roads lead to heaven...etc...it doesn't really matter how you live or do with life...etc and etc. Interesting, no recompense, no justice, just bliss: How should one live their lives? Why not Sin so that grace abounds?

What here is being attempted to be stolen, robbed, destroyed from you by such reports? A living eternal Relationship with the Lord Almighty is it not!

2 Corinthians 11:14 cites what principle here? Note the principles mentioned in John 10:10 and John 8:44 concerning the adversary (1 Peter 5:8).

The experience of dying and continuing on is simply stunning. Returning too soon or encountering a masquerading dark angel can skew ones interpretation. Since there are reported NDE of a negative nature — this should alone be enough to tell you, all is not bliss after death (Isaiah 24:22)

B. W. Melvin
Author: A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion.
2/19/2010

I pray that you find your answer in this short article posted here for your review...
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(P.S. = My apologies for posting link to the website as I do not want to appear to be spamming for it. Real intent was to let you know what my background and knowledge is on the subject of near death experiences)
Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
PaulB007
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by PaulB007 »

B. W. wrote:-
NDE

Near Death Experiences

PaulB007 wrote:Well, to narrow it down more specifically, how can I serve a life to Christ if NDE accounts make me doubt any world religion is right since everyone seemingly gets a free pass to an afterlife?
Before I answer question let me point to this website so you can get an idea who is writing this post.

When someone has such experiences several things must be kept in mind. First, the act of taking your last breath and then continuing on afterwards is, well, mildly put - overwhelming as you try to ascertain what is going on and what you are feeling.

There are usually two basic types of reported experiences. One involves feeling great elation, calm, peace and traveling somewhere. Another involves being escorted somewhere either terrifying or not allowed arrive at a final destination. One common theme of these two typical types is that the participants do not arrive at a destination.

They are traveling to it, or are told to return. That should queue you into something worth noting: the experience was interrupted. It is this interruption that is important. Why?

When one dies they encounter something going on and if not followed through to completion, a person can come back and only report on one half of the experience and miss the other half; this missing other half answers your question.

Image with me for a moment so you can get an idea about what I am trying to convey: You have an NDE. You take your last breath, float above your body feeling great peace, relief, as well as wonderful puzzlement. Then you enter a void realm seeing a light off in the distinct. You are traveling to it at the speed of thought.

While traveling, great love, joy is felt. Then you realize you are going somewhere. You arrive at an entry point and encounter a being. Suddenly you are resuscitated and re-enter your body. You did not stay at the entry point, for very long. It was interrupted. So you come back bearing a message of universalism. Is that correct a correct assumption?

The answer would be no because the experience was interrupted. You felt the great love and joy, etc, but did not have time to realize that this great love and joy you felt would be soon judging you for taking advantage of it, manipulating it, staining it by your actions and manner of life lived on earth.

You come back and report what? All is bliss because the experience was interrupted. Next also note that Satan and his minions can masquerade as angels of light. This means religious figures, or relatives, or people you know as well. A person may encounter such representations but due to the interruption, they do not realize the deception. So they report all is well after resuscitation.

Compound this with the feelings of joy, or love, peace, calm felt along the way and what would you report if your NDE was interrupted? If but given a bit more time, the true nature and reality of what was going on would be made known.

They would have eventually come into understanding that the very joy, love, peace, calm, mercy, compassion are the attributes of very God Himself being made manifest to a person and from this the reality of how you misuse, take advantage, defraud, deride God's goodness for your own pleasures is made fully known to you - without excuse. You entertain judgment then — (Hebrews 9:27)

This judgment can also come swiftly for others — almost immediately and their NDE's report being escorted to Hell or dropped in its confines. Then they are permitted to return. These do not get the fanfare as the positive NDE's do. Please note that more people die and continue on into full judgment than return back to life. Take that into account as well. What would they report?

What a person sows is what they'll reap (Job 34:11, 12). God's recompense is just, one person's affliction will be different than another, greater or lesser, but recompense it still is. Why? One lived life on earth basically manipulating, abusing, taking advantage, of God's own attributes of love, mercy, justice, peace, calm, faithfulness — deriding manipulating these in various ways.

Remember in this mortal life - God makes the good rain fall on the just and unjust — he is good to all and slow to anger…(Ecclesiastes 8:11, 12, 13) Note how the positive reported but interrupted NDE's attempt to get you to do this as well — take advantage of God's own goodness of character and nature.

These positive NDE report: No recompense all bliss, all roads lead to heaven...etc...it doesn't really matter how you live or do with life...etc and etc. Interesting, no recompense, no justice, just bliss: How should one live their lives? Why not Sin so that grace abounds?

What here is being attempted to be stolen, robbed, destroyed from you by such reports? A living eternal Relationship with the Lord Almighty is it not!

2 Corinthians 11:14 cites what principle here? Note the principles mentioned in John 10:10 and John 8:44 concerning the adversary (1 Peter 5:8).

The experience of dying and continuing on is simply stunning. Returning too soon or encountering a masquerading dark angel can skew ones interpretation. Since there are reported NDE of a negative nature — this should alone be enough to tell you, all is not bliss after death (Isaiah 24:22)

B. W. Melvin
Author: A Land Unknown: Hell's Dominion.
2/19/2010

I pray that you find your answer in this short article posted here for your review...
-
-
-
(P.S. = My apologies for posting link to the website as I do not want to appear to be spamming for it. Real intent was to let you know what my background and knowledge is on the subject of near death experiences)

No, that's fine, that's actually helpful that you have had this kind of experience. All to often I do not hear about the negative ones. In fact, in Jeffrey Long MD's new book about NDEs, there is not a single account in there that is discussed about a hell or people having negative experiences. He came to his own conclusion that there is a God that is the God of the universe and loves all regardless of what they do. You post made a lot of sense, I will have to read your book too. Out of curiosity, what happened to you that made you have the experience?
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Re: Near death experiences and Christianity

Post by B. W. »

PaulB007 wrote:... Out of curiosity, what happened to you that made you have the experience?
Good question:

God's Grace would be the only answer


As for Jeffery Long MD's new book about NDEs I thought you may have read it and was why you were curious.

Dr. Maurice S. Rawlings bookTo Hell and Back is also good and his book and DVD helps answers your questions as well.

Hospice care providers provide medications such as Adavan and Respridol for a reason to those dying and that should also give people a clue that not is bliss when one dies. There was a report released about this several years ago regarding that the majority of those dying (witnessed by Hospice workers) had very bad experiences. That is why the Adavan and Respridol is used. I'll try to find that report and post a link to it…
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
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