Catch 22

[Sleepykid]

Hey guys, got a question for ya.

As I've said in a topic before, I want nothing more than to be a Christian. However, it seems that whenever I have a belief in the reasonableness of Christianity, it gets torn down by its opponents. Could be any number of reasons: They seem better educated, argument is more eloquent, are more popular, spew more invective, etc. This isn't really a request to help my debating technique or anything.

I'm reminded of a passage in Mere Christianity where Lewis said something about how lacking confidence will disable anyone from being either an honest Christian or atheist. It seems that I lack the virtue of confidence, or self-esteem, or whatever it is that allows one to hold fast to anything without being dithering to and fro from whatever is popular. The problem for me is that the thing I want to believe, Christianity, tells me (I think) that no virtue can really be obtained unless through God. But it seems impossible to obtain His gifts if you don't really believe, at least not fully and truly.

So I want the trait necessary to be able to hold fast to a belief, but the thing I've not yet come to believe is its only source. What do I do?

[DannyM]

As I've said in a topic before, I want nothing more than to be a Christian. However, it seems that whenever I have a belief in the reasonableness of Christianity, it gets torn down by its opponents. Could be any number of reasons: They seem better educated, argument is more eloquent, are more popular, spew more invective, etc.

Hey Sleepy,

Could you list some of these arguments that you think tear down your belief? The only argument that really presents a challenge to Christianity is the argument of evil & suffering. Other than that I have only ever come across ranting & raving from atheists. Mockery is also a "virtue" of theirs. They think by shouting loudly to all and sundry that you believe in "the invisible sky-daddy" somehow wins them the argument. All it seems to do is make their fellow atheists laugh and meets with their approval- which gives you an indication of the intelligence levels we are dealing with... Atheists appear to think that believing in God automatically makes you irrational. The trouble is that the only irrational belief is the one that completely rules out an entity whose existence and being cannot be proven or disproved by the natural sciences. It is also arrogance in the extreme to believe that this world we perceive has to be the only world and there can be nothing else, no superintendent. The "new atheism" and the "brights" of this world have revealed themselves to be intellectually naked. And they are not eloquent- unless you call arrogance, mockery and loud noise "eloquent"... But! I might have missed something, some killer arguments that you have heard/seen....

Be well in yourself and confident in your beliefs. If you would like to be able to counter atheism and its militant troops- who are a *very* vocal minority- then you'll find this forum an invaluable source.

[Sleepykid]

I don't know about killer, but there are torn pieces from a few. Like maybe Mark has additions to it that weren't there before, the old Hume argument that deceptions are always more likely than the supernatural, etc. My problem isn't really the arguments themselves so much as how they get to me.

Like I said, it's not really the things themselves that make me feeble when it comes to this, it's just that I seem to have no confidence or backbone when it comes to this sort of thing. I'm wondering how to overcome that.

[PaulB007]

I don't know about killer, but there are torn pieces from a few. Like maybe Mark has additions to it that weren't there before, the old Hume argument that deceptions are always more likely than the supernatural, etc. My problem isn't really the arguments themselves so much as how they get to me.

Like I said, it's not really the things themselves that make me feeble when it comes to this, it's just that I seem to have no confidence or backbone when it comes to this sort of thing. I'm wondering how to overcome that.

Even if Mark were editted, and I have heard this before but don't think into it too much. I am a skeptic myself so I can understand why this would scare you. But you have to remember that Paul's letters to the Corinthian church are dated prior to the gospels even being written, in them he mention the death and ressurection of Christ.