sabbath keeping

[BavarianWheels]

• 1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
  2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
  3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8 )

Good luck to you guys though.

By this is it your interpretation that to follow the law is sin and death? It's not like anyone could ever keep it perfectly anyway...what good was it?

By this it is not my interpretation but Scripture itself. The law is not obligatory. So if anyone says otherwise (as I know SDA's consider the Sabbath to be obligatory along with staying away from particular foods) then they are wrong. If one intends to be saved by keeping the law then yes, such a way is frivolous and will only lead to sin and death.

Admittedly, many Adventists believe it is a "MUST"...however anything done from the 'must' perspective is not in the heart. None of the commandments MUST be kept for salvation, Christ has fulfilled the *requirement* of the law for us. However, as Paul says, that doesn't nullify the law. It is still God's law.

Christ was sent as an offering for sin because the law demands it (God demands perfect submission) but the sinful nature cannot abide in God perfectly. Christ can/does/did for us. He condemned sin...not what pointed at sin. There is nothing contrary about following the Law and salvation...in fact, Jesus was nailed to the cross because of the Sabbath as the NT reveals. Jesus did everything seemingly contrary to the Jewish leaders interpretation of keeping the Sabbath...claimed to be God and was crucified for it.

There is nothing contrary about following the Law and salvation because the Law has no impact upon salvation. If you can accept this point, and just choose to keep the Law nonetheless because you see it as a good thing to do rather than obligatory, then fine. It is better for your own conscience before God that you keep such things.

I would agree but am cautious on what the law is specific about. I don't think this creates an open season, if you will, on putting aside a day for worship to God. Every day should be, but there's only one He asks for/made holy specifically for that purpose.
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[Kurieuo]

• 1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
  2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
  3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8 )

Good luck to you guys though.

By this is it your interpretation that to follow the law is sin and death? It's not like anyone could ever keep it perfectly anyway...what good was it?

By this it is not my interpretation but Scripture itself. The law is not obligatory. So if anyone says otherwise (as I know SDA's consider the Sabbath to be obligatory along with staying away from particular foods) then they are wrong. If one intends to be saved by keeping the law then yes, such a way is frivolous and will only lead to sin and death.

Admittedly, many Adventists believe it is a "MUST"...however anything done from the 'must' perspective is not in the heart. None of the commandments MUST be kept for salvation, Christ has fulfilled the *requirement* of the law for us. However, as Paul says, that doesn't nullify the law. It is still God's law.

Christ was sent as an offering for sin because the law demands it (God demands perfect submission) but the sinful nature cannot abide in God perfectly. Christ can/does/did for us. He condemned sin...not what pointed at sin. There is nothing contrary about following the Law and salvation...in fact, Jesus was nailed to the cross because of the Sabbath as the NT reveals. Jesus did everything seemingly contrary to the Jewish leaders interpretation of keeping the Sabbath...claimed to be God and was crucified for it.

There is nothing contrary about following the Law and salvation because the Law has no impact upon salvation. If you can accept this point, and just choose to keep the Law nonetheless because you see it as a good thing to do rather than obligatory, then fine. It is better for your own conscience before God that you keep such things.

I would agree but am cautious on what the law is specific about. I don't think this creates an open season, if you will, on putting aside a day for worship to God. Every day should be, but there's only one He asks for/made holy specifically for that purpose.
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I think we can essentially agree, although I'll add a few more comments.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. God installed the Sabbath for man, not Himself.

It is good to set aside a day a week to rest and think about God and important spiritual matters. It gives perspective to life and we should pay respect to God. However, the Sabbath was only obligatory under the old covenant. If someone is under the new covenant in Christ, then there is no soteriological meaning in keeping any Laws found in the old. That said, Jesus made clear that if we follow Him we ought to keep with following two commandments upon which all the old were built: love God and love each other.

The one thing that can not be said is that keeping the Sabbath is obligatory. It may be a good thing to do, and it may have been the case with Israel under the old covenant that they were to keep it in their covenant with God, but under the new covenant we have Christ who has acted on our behalf once and for all as the high priest to remove our sin. Thus, it may be a good thing to do, but any obligation to it is meaningless (except where one's own conscience is concerned).

[JCSx2]

OK,

I am finally going to weigh in on this.

I have been through my Bible and looked up Sabbath references in it.

I do not see anywhere that the Lord commands to keep the Sabbath on Saturday (by naming the day of the week specifically). I have seen him command to keep the Sabbath a day of rest that is the seventh day of the week. It NEVER says Saturday.

Traditionally The Children of Israel kept it on Saturday, I get this from the New Testament i.e. Mark 15:42, Luke 23:52-56, John 19:38-42.

It does not specifically say Saturday, but the crucifixion Christ died and was put in the tomb on the “day of preparation” (Friday) that is the day before the Sabbath.

Now what does this imply? It implies that that Saturday is the seventh day of the week according to the tradition of the Jewish people.

I have also seen a reoccurrence of a timeline i.e. work six rest one, this goes for the sabbatical year also referenced in Exodus 23:10-12, Nehemiah 10:31.

So in the beginning of the commandment to keep the Sabbath and keep it holy, the Jews heard the command then started doing it on a Sunday, so it was the start of their work week.

Sure Gen 2:2-3, shows the very start of the Lords example of keeping the seventh day Holy, but it was not commanded to the people till later that I can see.

Now Moses came down from Mount Sinai, inducted the new Commandment from the Lord, wala Saturday is the day of rest.

Christians Changed it to Sunday due to that was the day of the Lord i.e. the day Jesus rose from the Dead. If there was a reason to change it I would say that is a good reason due to it is our very core belief as Christians that Jesus was raised from the dead.

Does God get offended that we do not follow it on Saturday anymore? I would not think so; I believe keeping the Sabbath is more important than keeping it on a specific day. What I mean is, keep the Sabbath, do no labor, worship the Lord. We do no labor to remind us we are not in control of our life, but God is, to remind us to worship God, to remind us we can worship in rest as well as in work. But because we are resting, we can devote more time to worship, we can concentrate more on God than during the week when we get sidetracked with our lives. We are not here for us; we are here for the Lord, so keeping the Sabbath is a HUGE reminder for us to worship our creator. He knows our human nature and knows we needed reminders even though we should strive to worship constantly, without reminders.

In our Society people work all hours of the day all days of the week. Keeping a specific day for the Sabbath (Saturday or Sunday) is a difficult thing to do for some with their personnel schedule.

So bottom line; I feel keep one day a week open specifically for the Lord to worship him.

Following are all the scripture references that I have looked at.

Gen 2:2-3

2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 16:22-30

22 And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.'” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the LORD said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Exodus 20:8-11

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Exodus 23:10-12

10 “Six years you shall sow your land and gather in its produce, 11 but the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave, the beasts of the field may eat. In like manner you shall do with your vineyard and your olive grove. 12 Six days you shall do your work, and on the seventh day you shall rest, that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female servant and the stranger may be refreshed.

Exodus 31:12-17

12 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'


Leviticus 23:3

3 'Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23:32

32 It shall be to you a Sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your Sabbath.”

Deuteronomy 5:12-15

12 ' Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

2 Kings 4:23

23 So he said, “Why are you going to him today? It is neither the New Moon nor the Sabbath.”
And she said, “It is well.”

Isaiah 56:2-7

2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the LORD
Speak, saying,

“ The LORD has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,

“ Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the LORD:

“ To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “ Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations

Nehemiah 10:31

31 if the peoples of the land brought wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a holy day; and we would forego the seventh year's produce and the exacting of every debt.

Jeremiah 17:21-22

21 Thus says the LORD: “Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; 22 nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

Ezekiel 46:3

3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the entrance to this gateway before the LORD on the Sabbaths and the New Moons.

Matthew 12:12

12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath

Luke 13:14-17
14 But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, “There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day.”
15 The Lord then answered him and said, “Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it? 16 So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound—think of it—for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?” 17 And when He said these things, all His adversaries were put to shame; and all the multitude rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by Him.
Mark 6:2
2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, “Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!
Acts 13:14
14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.
Mark 2:27
27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Matthew 28:1
1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
Mark 15:42
It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached,
Luke 6:5
5 And He said to them, “The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
Luke 23:52-56
52Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body. 53Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. 54It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.
55The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.
John 19:38-42
38Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate's permission, he came and took the body away. 39He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.[a] 40Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. 41At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

[BavarianWheels]

I think we can essentially agree, although I'll add a few more comments.

I think so too, while I may also add a few also.

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. God installed the Sabbath for man, not Himself.

...which stems to reason man needs it.

It is good to set aside a day a week to rest and think about God and important spiritual matters. It gives perspective to life and we should pay respect to God.

What better way to do this is there than in the manner in which God set forth? Should we second guess what God has laid down? Never is any one commandment put aside, but (I believe) all were made more clear in their keeping through Christ's life and ministry.

However, the Sabbath was only obligatory under the old covenant. If someone is under the new covenant in Christ, then there is no soteriological meaning in keeping any Laws found in the old. That said, Jesus made clear that if we follow Him we ought to keep with following two commandments upon which all the old were built: love God and love each other.

...which the 10 deal with specifically. 1-4 deal with loving God. 5-10 deal with each other.
It simply baffles me how (no disrespect) a person of this belief can make such a statement holding up what Christ said on one hand, then on the other tossing aside that which (as K writes above and I hold as truth) is built on a base of two.

The one thing that can not be said is that keeping the Sabbath is obligatory.

We, in this life, cannot keep any to God's approval/acceptance.

It may be a good thing to do,

I disagree. God's only written word is not maybe good...IT IS good.

and it may have been the case with Israel under the old covenant that they were to keep it in their covenant with God, but under the new covenant we have Christ who has acted on our behalf once and for all as the high priest to remove our sin. Thus, it may be a good thing to do, but any obligation to it is meaningless (except where one's own conscience is concerned).

Was being saved for Israel keeping the covenant perfectly? I hardly think even the NT writers believed that as they freely acknowledge it was faith that credited righteousness. The old and new are basically the same. The old was faith in a future act, the new is faith in a passed act...which as Paul argues that this does not nullify the law. If the law was placed to show sin, and Christ removed sin...the law still remains to show what Christ removed in what we cannot do perfectly as the only means by which the law can save. I hope you understand that I don't mean we are saved by keeping the law. What I mean is that the only way the law can save a person is if that person has perfectly kept the law even from conception...which we all know that we are told that in sin we are conceived. So the law cannot save anyone...hence it is a ministry of death to all...except Christ whose works we are credited with when we believe. Christ fulfilled the letter of the law fully. He took and passed the test, if you will, we are taking now. He took it for us and so in our belief, we are dead already to the curse of the law, the ministry of death...and are alive through/in Christ. This, I think we all agree on. It is the Gospel. We can do nothing to earn it, but again, Paul says this does not nullify God's law.
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[AMC]

...which the 10 deal with specifically. 1-4 deal with loving God. 5-10 deal with each other.
It simply baffles me how (no disrespect) a person of this belief can make such a statement holding up what Christ said on one hand, then on the other tossing aside that which (as K writes above and I hold as truth) is built on a base of two.

Just to put in my own two cents. In reading Mattew: 22, I read:

[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus clearly states that the two greatest commandments (Love God with all thy heart and your neighbour as thyself) is the foundation of 'All the Law and the Prophets'. He's not just talking about the ten commandments, but the entire law given to Moses and the prophets. Yes, the ten commandments are divided in sections that deal with love for God and love for each other, but Jesus doesn't say that these two commandments are the foundation of the ten. The entire law was designed to honor God and each other.

Anyway, as the Pharisees ask Him what the most important commandment is in the law, Jesus gives the above two commandments because they are the foundation of the law. If keeping sabbath or any law of all the laws give to Moses was more important than another for salvation, Jesus certainly would have mentioned that here.

Exodus: 31
[13] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
[14] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

God Himself states in verse 16 that the sabbath is a convenant between Him and the people of Israel. Not all the people on earth, but 'the children of Israel'.

Something similar happens in Matthew 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The disciples are sent to bring the gospel to the lost children of Israel. The people He had taught so far, were all Jews, accustomed to the law and the sabbath. What did the people all over the world at that point knew about Gods law and the sabbath? Zip, nakkes, nada, nothing.

Mark: 16
14] Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
[15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Finally, the disciples are ordered to spread the gospel to the world and to baptize people (in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, as said in Mattew 28 :
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Acts: 13
[36] For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
[37] But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
[38] Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[39] And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
[40] Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
[41] Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
[42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Paul started preaching the good news but was still among Jews (vs 42) and was requested to return next sabbath (because Jews of course kept the sabbath) but see wat Paul says in vs 39, all who believe in Jesus are free of guilt, something you could not accomplish by the law of Moses.

Acts 15 deals with how new Jewish-christians demanded that new not-Jewish christians should uphold the law of Moses and how Paul rebuts this in vs. 28
[28] For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[29] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

If you read through Acts, it becomes clear that Paul preaches the gospel on the sabbaths because this was the day he could reach the most people, because they all gathered at the synagoges. In Acts 20 you find the first mention of sunday gatherings with the new christians.
[7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Romans 7 deals with the law
1] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
[3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

We are dead for the law. If someone holds a claim on you (the devil holds a claim on us using the laws against us) you have to pay back (we would have to pay with our very souls because of our sins), but, if you die, you are no longer able to pay that clame. So, because in Jesus we are dead to the law, the devil/satan, lost his claim on us.

Romans 10
3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

There are so many examples. Point is, the disciples spread out to bring the Good News, Jesus died for our sins and in Him we are saved. If keeping sabbath on Saturday was that much of a dealbreaker, they would have addressed that in their gospels. But what do they preach instead? Jesus died for us, believe in Him, he is the only way to salvation, not abiding the law.

So, I don't believe we will be judged for which day we use to celebrate God. I'm appalled that some people claim that worship of God on sundays is the Mark of the Beast. I think it's to each their own. If you feel comfortable worshipping God on sabbath (saturday), please do. If you feel more comfortable worshipping God on sundays, please do!

[Fitzlight]

Now this question proves that christians do not really accept the bible has God's final authority on His truth. Look at God tells Moses concerning the Seventhday Sabbath in Exodus 31:13-17, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
The word sign is the Hebrew word { 'ôth }. Which also means mark and the word pereptual is the Hebrew word, {‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm}. Which means, time out of mind, time without end, eternal. So it is very clear that God is telling Moses that the Seventhday Sabbath is His Mark which we are to have so that we will remember that we are His people and that He is our God who makes us Holy. He is also telling Moses that this Seventhday Sabbath covenant is never to end and that His mark will always be the Seventhday Sabbath.
Now look at what Jesus says to us concerning the Law, commandments. Matthew 5:17-19,
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Here Jesus is very clear that there will be no change made to the law/commandments not even so little a change as the dotting of an {i} or the crossing of a {t} until three thing happen first. {1} This heaven has to pass away. {2} This earth has to pass away. {3} All prophesy must have been fulfilled.
Now concerning God's Holy Mark the Seventhday Sabbath remember the mark of the beast. Remember that Satan is the perfect opposite of God. Where God is Love, Satan is hate. Where God is Life, Satan is death. What would be the perfect mark for the beast to use that is the perfect opposite of God's Holy Mark? Would it not be the firstday sabbath?
Now as to the reason God did not call His Sabbath saturday is because He did not give names to the days He simple number them and it was man that gave names to them. If you wish to know what day is the seventhday look at your calendar and count from left to right day 1, day 2 until you reach day seven and that is the Sabbathday.

[Fitzlight]

sabbath keeping
by edwardamo » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:08 pm

Many Christians (including me) do not believe the command to keep the Sabbath applies to Christians. We do have the Lord's Day, but that is a different thing entirely than keeping the Sabbath. For my own brief explanation of this, see http://www.noble-minded.org/sabbath.html. (Or if you're really ambitious, read the book "From Sabbath to Lord's Day," edited by D. A. Carson.)edwardamo
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Christians reject the seventhday sabbath because they desire to obey the Holy Roman Catholic Church who commanded that all of the faith had to cease keeping the Seventhday sabbath and that they were to start keeping the first as the Lord's Day. This is an historical fact and yet christians reject even that fact. The Holy Roman Catholic Church herself has made many comments concerning christians keeping the sabbath that she commanded and rejecting the sabbath that God commands and she says that because they do that they are proving the she has the authority to change God's Holy Laws and precepts. Christians keep trying to claim that they have scripture to support their keeping of the first day sabbath yet they can show no commandment. All they can show is things which where done by men on certain days and claim that because these men did this on this day that that changed the sabbath commandment. Thereby making God and Jesus out to be liars when They say that the Seventhday Sabbath and the commandments will not change until we are pass the heaven, this earth and all propecy has been fulfilled, but it matters not to them that God says, Romans 3:4, 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. and also 1John 2:3-4, 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
Now God also tells us that if we do not keep His Holy Commandments that we do not Know Him and that we are liars if we say we do. The seventhday sabbath is a commandment. We are also told this, James 2;10-11, 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Notice the commandments being refered to. These are the commandments of God which includes the Seventhday Commandment. For the same God that said You shall not kill also said Remember the sabbathday to keep it Holy speaking of the seventhday. Yet christians will continue to keep the firstday as the sabbath breaking God's Holy Commandments and rejecting His Holy Mark so that they might keep the commandment of men and have upon themselves the mark of Satan.

[Fitzlight]

I specifically said it was kept on Saturday. (Even in the NT, by any who chose to still keep it, though this was no longer required.)

I challenge anyone to show me a commandment or even a scripture that clearly states that we do not have to keep God's Holy Commandments. I have posted scripture that makes it very clear that we do and that if we disobey even one of them we are guilty of having disobeyed them all. The seventhday sabbath is a commandment and it matters not if you wish that it was not. If you have to keep the commandment that says you shall not kill then you have to also keep the commandment Remember the Sabbathday. You can not as men decide for yourselves what commandment you will keep and what commandments you will not keep. The commandments are the only laws that God wrote with His own Hand and He did so to make it clear that they were and or His Holy Laws and He wrote them in stone to make it clear that only He can change them. Does it not make you wonder why christians hate the seventhday sabbath so much? What would it hurt them to keep the seventhday sabbath? Do they not keep the firstday sabbath? So why all the anger, hate against the seventhday sabbath? I have had christians tell me that if they started to keep the seventhday sabbath that by doing so they would remove themselves from grace and place themselves under the law, but yet I ask them then why do they command the keeping of all other commandments. Why do they use the commandments to condemn anyone of sin? If by keeping one commandment you will be removed from grace and placed under the law then does it not stand to reason that by keeping any of the commandments would do the same thing? By what scriptural authority do they claim that only by keeping the Seventhday Sabbath commandment will cause you to be removed from grace and placed under the law while the keeping of others does not do so?
Christians do not and can not see the confusion that abounds in what they believe. They are blind to it.
These are God's Holy Commandments as He wrote them.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Now take notice of the seventhday Sabbath commandment that it is indeed a commandment like all other of the commandments and men can not alter nor change that fact. If you do not keep it then you are guilty of breaking God's Holy Laws and you make yourselves to be liars when you claim that you know Him.

[August]

So, Fitzlight, do you believe one who does not keep a Saturday Sabbath, or all the commandments, for that matter, is going to hell?

[jlay]

Perhaps we should pull up the requirements of keeping the Sabbath as recorded in the OT, and then perhaps you can tell us if you have been following them.

Otherwise, what exactly are you "keeping?"

[Fitzlight]

Why can't christians understand that the Commandments are God's Holy Laws and that all other laws (such as the Levitical laws and the laws of Moses) are just laws? These are the laws that were done away with. These are the laws that were contrary to us. Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that were against us, which were contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

I have asked many christians to point out to me how are any of God's Holy Laws contrary to us? Why does David praise God's Holy Laws claiming that they are a light unto our path and that they are just and righteous? Why do men today try to make even one of these Holy Commandments evil?

Why do you christians claim that we who know that we are to keep all of God's Holy Laws/Commandments are "without understanding"? Could it not be possible that it is you who are without understanding? I ask you, why is there no appearance of confusion or contradiction in what we believe, while there is confusion and contradiction in what you believe? Why can we post scripture upon scripture to support what we believe while you can not?

Also, why do you, christians, become so upset and even angry when we who reject what you believe will not accept what you say? I have had christians, even preachers, curse me and call me all manner of names, because I quote scripture and I point out to them how the scripture does not support what they claim.

One last thing: We who believe that we are to keep God's Holy Laws/Commandments do not believe that we are to keep the Levitical laws nor the Laws of Moses and that is why we do not keep the festivals or anything that is not covered in or by God's Holy Commandments/Laws.

[August]

Fitzlight, let's be clear, this is a discussion board. We welcome most points of view here, IF the proponents are willing to engage in a discussion about it.

We will not stand for rants and insults to Christians.

If you want to remain here, please answer the questions that were asked of you. If you continue to use the forum as a soapbox for your views, you will no longer be welcome here.

[jlay]

The commandment says, remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
The law then goes on to state what is required to keep it holy.

So, please provide NT SCRIPTURE quotations on how a new covenant gentile believer is to "keep" the Sabbath.

[BavarianWheels]

Fitzlight, let's be clear, this is a discussion board. We welcome most points of view here, IF the proponents are willing to engage in a discussion about it.

We will not stand for rants and insults to Christians.

If you want to remain here, please answer the questions that were asked of you. If you continue to use the forum as a soapbox for your views, you will no longer be welcome here.

Interesting to note, he posed questions to you first, but since you're in the "majority", you seem to think your secondary question is to be answered first.

<giggles>
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[August]

Fitzlight, let's be clear, this is a discussion board. We welcome most points of view here, IF the proponents are willing to engage in a discussion about it.

We will not stand for rants and insults to Christians.

If you want to remain here, please answer the questions that were asked of you. If you continue to use the forum as a soapbox for your views, you will no longer be welcome here.

Interesting to note, he posed questions to you first, but since you're in the "majority", you seem to think your secondary question is to be answered first.

<giggles>
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What question did he ask me?