I Don't Understand Atheism

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

rather than face down atheists we should ignore people who bring nothing other than hate to the table. Atheists and theists alike. It is the radicals on both sides that ruin the debate for everyone and make living with one another difficult. These spin doctors on either side of the fence make conversation emotional and irrational.

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I would agree with this at face value. Unfortunately, atheism by its very nature is hatred towards God. The Bible itself makes this clear. This hatred may be low-level contempt covered up as fake «questionning,» (which I suspect is the case of some of our atheists here,) or fullblown animosity as in an atheist forum.

The majority of Atheist that I have come in contact with were actually former Christians. They seem to know their bible better than most, however it's always out of context. They operate very much like a cult would, taking single verses and building an entire doctrine out of it (like God is evil), while ignoring the whole of scripture.

Excellent point. As an atheist, I was much more familiar with the Bible than most so-called Christians. In this sense, atheists are like the media, taking things out-of-context in order to sell their crap. The danger - for atheists - is that faith comes by hearing the Word of God.

When I would call them on it most would suddenly disengage. They can't handle looking at what the bible really has to say. In my estimation they are purposefully and willfully ignorant.

An atheist will suddenly disengage when confronted by either a knowledgeable Christian, or an aggressive Christian. In either case, they will create in their minds an impression of having won the engagement. If it is a knowledgeable Christian, «he is brainwashed» will be the atheist's ticket out; if an aggressive Christian, «he's crazy with religion» will be the scapegoat. In either case, the atheist wins...in his head. His head: the seat of his god.

FL

[hatsoff]

Unfortunately, atheism by its very nature is hatred towards God. The Bible itself makes this clear.

I hope you're aware of how this kind of thing sounds to us atheists.

We don't believe in God. By saying we hate God, you're effectively denying that we're atheists. Can you imagine what you'd think of me if I tried to tell you that you weren't really a Christian? Or, perhaps a better analogy, suppose I insist that you hate Ronald Reagan, and that's the reason you won't admit he's still alive. You'd think I was off my rocker, and you'd be right.

As an atheist, I was much more familiar with the Bible than most so-called Christians.

So, are you saying that you really didn't believe in God (and therefore couldn't have hated Him), or just that you erroneously labeled yourself as an atheist? If the former, then why do you ascribe hatred to other atheists? If the latter, then why do you continue to use the erroneous label?

An atheist will suddenly disengage when confronted by either a knowledgeable Christian,

Not so. As a matter of fact, I'm most interested in seeking out knowledgeable Christians so that I can engage them! I usually ignore Christians who don't know anything about their religion (and therefore make poor conversationalists).

or an aggressive Christian.

Now that could be. I for one am in no need of aggressive debate. I enjoy calm and polite discussions.

In either case, they will create in their minds an impression of having won the engagement.

How is it that you claim to know what atheists are thinking about privately? Who says we even see our conversations in terms of winning or losing? I don't. I talk about religion because it entertains me to exercise the knowledge I've accumulated. Occasionally I may learn new things, as well, and that's really cool! I'm not in it to score debate points.

Perhaps you are mistaking talking points for knowledge. I'm not interested in people reading me a script, and so I unapologetically avoid those kinds of folks.

[Kurieuo]

Unfortunately, atheism by its very nature is hatred towards God. The Bible itself makes this clear.

I hope you're aware of how this kind of thing sounds to us atheists.

We don't believe in God. By saying we hate God, you're effectively denying that we're atheists. Can you imagine what you'd think of me if I tried to tell you that you weren't really a Christian? Or, perhaps a better analogy, suppose I insist that you hate Ronald Reagan, and that's the reason you won't admit he's still alive. You'd think I was off my rocker, and you'd be right.

Strongly disagree. Everyone has an opinion of God and what he is like/would be like whether you're Atheist or not. I recall reading of one counsellor in particular who asks each of her clients how they perceive God, and Atheist and Christians alike both respond.

If God does exist (assume God does), what is your perception of such a being given your life? I'd be interested to know.

[Gman]

I've never even met an atheist that could give me a good reason for not believing in God or a god. There is none.. As far as I'm concerned, being an atheist is a personal choice based on a skewed interpretation of God.

[Gman]

Not so. As a matter of fact, I'm most interested in seeking out knowledgeable Christians so that I can engage them! I usually ignore Christians who don't know anything about their religion (and therefore make poor conversationalists).

Engage what? Hatsoff... You have offered nothing new here.. Nothing. You have been out debated, out gunned numerous times on this forum. And it is apparent you know nothing about Christianity. Even your blog is very wimpy imo.. Embarrassing and inaccurate.

Why are you here? Trying to save face?

[Dazed and Confused]

An atheist will suddenly disengage when confronted by either a knowledgeable Christian,

Not so. As a matter of fact, I'm most interested in seeking out knowledgeable Christians so that I can engage them! I usually ignore Christians who don't know anything about their religion (and therefore make poor conversationalists).

Then you are an exception to the rule. My experience in the years I have spent on Atheist forums is quite different. The majority of Atheist, when faced with the full counsel of God, are like a deer in the headlights caught and unable to move. At first they seem to know their bible, but once you expose their ignorance they run away. It's just the way it is for most of them.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

My experience in the years I have spent on Atheist forums is quite different. The majority of Atheist, when faced with the full counsel of God, are like a deer in the headlights caught and unable to move. At first they seem to know their bible, but once you expose their ignorance they run away. It's just the way it is for most of them.

This is true for most atheists and Christians.

[Atheism = Hatred of God] I hope you're aware of how this kind of thing sounds to us atheists.

Yes. It sounds stupid to an atheist...and illogical, as your comments imply. I wasn't addressing this to an atheist audience, though.

So, are you saying that you really didn't believe in God (and therefore couldn't have hated Him), or just that you erroneously labeled yourself as an atheist? If the former, then why do you ascribe hatred to other atheists?

I was an atheist. Atheism is hatred of God, as the Bible makes clear. I don't expect you to understand; indeed, you are incapable of understanding.

I'm most interested in seeking out knowledgeable Christians so that I can engage them!

Engage them for what? What is your purpose here?

How is it that you claim to know what atheists are thinking about privately? Who says we even see our conversations in terms of winning or losing? I don't. I talk about religion because it entertains me to exercise the knowledge I've accumulated. Occasionally I may learn new things, as well, and that's really cool! I'm not in it to score debate points.

I used to be part of an atheist association that met weekly and listened to taped lectures and then discussed how to engage Christians. (This was before internet.) Of course, leaving the comfort of one's home and going to a lecture would indicate that only the vilest atheists would continue to attend. So...you may have a point: I may not understand what motivates low-level haters of God.

FL

[Gman]

Apparently, to him, Christians don't know anything about their religion... That we blindly follow the leader and don't ask any questions.

Let me tell you something. I'm probably a bigger skeptic than you, been on this earth longer than you, and have wrestled with things that I thought were inconsistencies. To this day, every one of my questions have been answered through God's word. There are no errors in it, only people's understanding of it or what they read into it.

So if we don't know anything about our religion, why don't you enlighten us? Do you think you are going to surprise us? I probably know more about your religion than you..

[DannyM]

Not so. As a matter of fact, I'm most interested in seeking out knowledgeable Christians so that I can engage them! I usually ignore Christians who don't know anything about their religion (and therefore make poor conversationalists).

Engage what? Hatsoff... You have offered nothing new here.. Nothing. You have been out debated, out gunned numerous times on this forum. And it is apparent you know nothing about Christianity. Even your blog is very wimpy imo.. Embarrassing and inaccurate.

Why are you here? Trying to save face?

You're right. When are we gonna get some atheists who can produce a single rational argument for their position. All I've seen from atheism, and for a long time now, is pure rhetoric and bluster disguised as science and "critical thinking," in which us "thick religious types" couldn't possibly engage! Man, they don't even REALISE how outdated and nonsensical their "arguments" are. Atheism is dead. It needs a revival soon, some new thinkers because what they've got right now is just poor...

[Dazed and Confused]

You're right. When are we gonna get some atheists who can produce a single rational argument for their position. All I've seen from atheism, and for a long time now, is pure rhetoric and bluster disguised as science and "critical thinking," in which us "thick religious types" couldn't possibly engage! Man, they don't even REALISE how outdated and nonsensical their "arguments" are. Atheism is dead. It needs a revival soon, some new thinkers because what they've got right now is just poor...

I have only come across one Atheist argument that I felt had any merit. That being "why are there so many Christian denominations (Catholic, Non-Denominational, Denominational, Bible Believing, etc...) and so much division in the Church if we are One in Christ Jesus". Apparently we are One in Christ, yet 38,000 in doctrinal differences. I don't have an issue with this claim, but if any one of those 38,000 denominations deny the Gospel as the sole means for their salvation and forgiveness of sins, well that's just not Christian.

Luke 9:49-50 "John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us." But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you."

[Gman]

You're right. When are we gonna get some atheists who can produce a single rational argument for their position. All I've seen from atheism, and for a long time now, is pure rhetoric and bluster disguised as science and "critical thinking," in which us "thick religious types" couldn't possibly engage! Man, they don't even REALISE how outdated and nonsensical their "arguments" are. Atheism is dead. It needs a revival soon, some new thinkers because what they've got right now is just poor...

I really don't have a beef with atheists.. Only with the philosophy of atheism. Atheism is a dark way to look at people and reality. Viewing people (and nature) as a product of blind luck chance, soulless mechanized machines, with the only purpose in life is to reproduce and consume. Materialism at it's finest. In a way it could be associated with rampant capitalism. All meaning being stripped away.. I simply refuse to look at life and nature that way.

And you are right. To this day no one has given me a single rational argument for their position. Nothing... You can't take science and disprove God, and neither can you philosophically..

Therefore atheism is simply a personal choice.. A dark way of looking at life.. Looking at people and nature as robots. What a sad choice...

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

So if we don't know anything about our religion, why don't you [hatsoff] enlighten us? Do you think you are going to surprise us? I probably know more about your religion than you..

While waiting for hatsoff to answer these questions,

Engage them for what? What is your purpose here?

If God does exist (assume God does), what is your perception of such a being given your life? I'd be interested to know.

...I took a look at his blog. He obviously spends a lot of time thinking about religion. There is nothing really interesting there for a believer, apart from seeing how the mind of hatsoff-the-atheist operates. (Please, hatsoff! get rid of those references to Q...I was ashamed for you! you sound like a throwback to the 70s!)

OK hatsoff, ..carry on.

FL

[Gman]

OK hatsoff, ..carry on.

FL

Nice try... But he only deals with knowledgeable Christians.

[hatsoff]

While waiting for hatsoff to answer these questions,

I'm not sure to which questions you are referring. If you mean gman's suggestion that I "enlighten" you all, well, I'm not going to answer it, because it falsely assumes that I'm some kind of egomaniac who thinks he knows better than everyone else.

I have tried to explain that I'm a hobbyist historian and philosopher. I research the Bible, early Christianity and various philosophical topics in my spare time, and I enjoy talking about them. That's why I'm here. I never claimed to be an expert, nor would I. It's just a hobby.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear before.

Perhaps, however, you're (also) referring to Kurieuo's question:

If God does exist (assume God does), what is your perception of such a being given your life? I'd be interested to know.

Unfortunately I cannot answer this one either, because I have no perception of God. If I did, I wouldn't be an atheist!

There is nothing really interesting there for a believer, apart from seeing how the mind of hatsoff-the-atheist operates.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. However, just because you don't see anything interesting doesn't mean other believers won't.

Please, hatsoff! get rid of those references to Q...I was ashamed for you! you sound like a throwback to the 70s!

Q is still a popular, perhaps even dominant hypothesis in NT scholarship, and for excellent reason. I have no qualms about discussing it.

[Gman]

I have tried to explain that I'm a hobbyist historian and philosopher. I research the Bible, early Christianity and various philosophical topics in my spare time, and I enjoy talking about them. That's why I'm here. I never claimed to be an expert, nor would I. It's just a hobby.

So you would throw away a relationship with the creator of the universe over a hobby or an assumption? Playing Russian roulette with your own soul? Like we have been saying before, you have given us nothing to believe that the Bible is a concoction of works brewed up by man alone. There is no complete understanding of this world apart from God. No one has ever reached that plateau. Nothing in math, science, or philosophy..

So you can have all the assumptions you want... The question is, will you submit your authority to it?