Health care reform - how does that play into being pro-life?

zoegirl · Post by **zoegirl** » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:11 pm

what candy do you mean?

Harry12345 · Post by **Harry12345** » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:05 am

zoegirl wrote:what candy do you mean?

Hershey's, I tried. English candy is a lot more sugar-y than American candy, hence why your teeth are better.

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:31 am

Silvertusk wrote:You see this is the problem with the media - It is always happy to report the failures of any system - because that is what makes news..

How is this a "problem" with the media? Any failures within such a system NEED to be reported. Yes, it makes news, but WHY does it make news? It makes news because the public have a right to know about deficiencies within the NHS; it is a public issue. Instead of shooting the meesenger you should be thanking the messenger for reporting on NHS failures.

Silvertusk wrote:I tell you this for a fact - I can count on one hand the amount of articles I have read that state the successes of the NHS - does that mean the NHS is a failure - no - it saves hundreds of lives every day. And do you hear the Media talking about that - no of course you dont - Bad news is Good news and it sells papers.

No. Bad news is bad news and the public have a RIGHT to know about bad news within the publicly-funded NHS.

Silvertusk wrote:so don't believe everything you read. Does it means that the NHS is perfect - no of course. But any health care system that tries to provide free health care (via taxes) to all people no matter what their income is a system that should be supported, encouraged and helped. I am very proud of our NHS and it takes a lot of unneccessary stick - because it is an easy target and the media likes easy targets. It is based on christian principles that all who are sick can get treatment. If anyone think that is wrong - then I really don't understand where you are coming from.

There's not an issue of the NHS not being supported- everyone is in favour of the founding principles of the NHS. The press is SUPPORTING the NHS by reporting its failures. Unless you think these failures should not be brought to our attention? You and I are investors and "share holders" in the NHS; don't you want to know how it is being run? I know I do.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:40 am

Texasmomof3 wrote:To clarify, my Mom lives in California, and that is where I was born and raised. And I'm sorry, Rick, but you are wrong. The United States has always been considered a Judeo-Christian country, and we regularly rank at the top of countries with the most believers in God. I believe that is why we are also at the top of the most generous countries in the world. No one gives more to help others and to charities than we do. Our nation was NOT founded to get away from Christian principles, on the contrary, it was to be able to worship freely, and not under the dictates of the King and thereby HIS church of England. But it was most certainly NOT to get away from a "Christan" nation.

Texasmomof3, I never said that our nation was founded to get away from Christian principles. I said, part of the reason it was founded was to get away from the "christian" nation that our founders left. Notice I said "christian" with a small "c". The Country our founding fathers left was a "christian" nation with a small c. It was not a nation of people who were born-again believers. Neither is The United States. You talked about a poll where 9 out of 10 people believe in God. Well, that is not relevant. I'm sure Satan believes in God. Does that make him a born again Christian? (notice the Capital C

) Yes, part of why our country was founded was to worship freely. If the United States is ever forced to be a "christian " nation by any man's definition of "christian", we will lose our freedom to worship freely. Oh, by the way, try asking that "poll" question to the people of Saudi Arabia. How many there do you think would say they believe in "God"? I rest my case.

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:49 am

RickD wrote:Texasmomof3, I never said that our nation was founded to get away from Christian principles. I said, part of the reason it was founded was to get away from the "christian" nation that our founders left. Notice I said "christian" with a small "c". The Country our founding fathers left was a "christian" nation with a small c. It was not a nation of people who were born-again believers. Neither is The United States. You talked about a poll where 9 out of 10 people believe in God. Well, that is not relevant. I'm sure Satan believes in God. Does that make him a born again Christian? (notice the Capital C ) Yes, part of why our country was founded was to worship freely. If the United States is ever forced to be a "christian " nation by any man's definition of "christian", we will lose our freedom to worship freely. Oh, by the way, try asking that "poll" question to the people of Saudi Arabia. How many there do you think would say they believe in "God"? I rest my case.

Rick, are you referring to the religious refugees, evicted during the reign of Charles I of England?

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:05 am

DannyM wrote:
RickD wrote:Texasmomof3, I never said that our nation was founded to get away from Christian principles. I said, part of the reason it was founded was to get away from the "christian" nation that our founders left. Notice I said "christian" with a small "c". The Country our founding fathers left was a "christian" nation with a small c. It was not a nation of people who were born-again believers. Neither is The United States. You talked about a poll where 9 out of 10 people believe in God. Well, that is not relevant. I'm sure Satan believes in God. Does that make him a born again Christian? (notice the Capital C ) Yes, part of why our country was founded was to worship freely. If the United States is ever forced to be a "christian " nation by any man's definition of "christian", we will lose our freedom to worship freely. Oh, by the way, try asking that "poll" question to the people of Saudi Arabia. How many there do you think would say they believe in "God"? I rest my case.
Rick, are you referring to the religious refugees, evicted during the regn of Charles I of England?

No Danny. All I'm saying is that just because the US was founded upon some Judeo-Christian principles, it doesn't mean it's a Christian nation. Our leader/spokesman, has no problem with the murder of innocent human beings, and possibly the majority of Americans also believe as he does. That alone should say something about our nation NOT being Christian. Because there may or may not be more born-again believers in the US than any other nation, speaks more to the freedom of religion/lack of religious persecution we as Americans can be thankful we have. There is no such thing as a Christian nation. That is my point.

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:19 am

RickD wrote:No Danny. All I'm saying is that just because the US was founded upon some Judeo-Christian principles, it doesn't mean it's a Christian nation. Our leader/spokesman, has no problem with the murder of innocent human beings, and possibly the majority of Americans also believe as he does. That alone should say something about our nation NOT being Christian. Because there may or may not be more born-again believers in the US than any other nation, speaks more to the freedom of religion/lack of religious persecution we as Americans can be thankful we have. There is no such thing as a Christian nation. That is my point.

America IS a Christian nation in terms of its population's beliefs; so too is Britain. While some Revolutionaries had political and economic goals, others had religious objectives, born out of strong Puritan convictions. I think you do a disservice to the founding fathers of that great nation. You can talk of government and how secular they are, but that does not tell us that America is not a Christian country.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:41 am

DannyM wrote:
RickD wrote:No Danny. All I'm saying is that just because the US was founded upon some Judeo-Christian principles, it doesn't mean it's a Christian nation. Our leader/spokesman, has no problem with the murder of innocent human beings, and possibly the majority of Americans also believe as he does. That alone should say something about our nation NOT being Christian. Because there may or may not be more born-again believers in the US than any other nation, speaks more to the freedom of religion/lack of religious persecution we as Americans can be thankful we have. There is no such thing as a Christian nation. That is my point.
America IS a Christian nation in terms of its population's beliefs; so too is Britain. While some Revolutionaries had political and economic goals, others had religious objectives, born out of strong Puritan convictions. I think you do a disservice to the founding fathers of that great nation. You can talk of government and how secular they are, but that does not tell us that America is not a Christian country.

Danny, what specific "population's beliefs" do you mean? When I speak of "Christian", I mean the true church of God(all born-again believers) not some generic meaning of christian. Please tell me why you believe the US is a Christian nation. Please give specific answers. Thanks PS If you mean christian nation in a generic sense, then I agree that The US is a christian nation. Please tell me how I do a "disservice to the founding fathers".

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:46 am

RickD wrote:Danny, what specific "population's beliefs" do you mean? When I speak of "Christian", I mean the true church of God(all born-again believers) not some generic meaning of christian. Please tell me why you believe the US is a Christian nation. Please give specific answers. Thanks PS If you mean christian nation in a generic sense, then I agree that The US is a christian nation.

Because in polls taken in America the results ALWAYS come out in it being overwhelmingly a Christian country. How are you measuring whether or not many of these Christians are "real" Christians or not? What yard stick are you using and what research have you done in to whether or not these Christians live up to your definition?

Harry12345 · Post by **Harry12345** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:48 am

America is a secular nation, with a lot of Christians in it.

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:56 am

Harry12345 wrote:America is a secular nation, with a lot of Christians in it.

No it's not. America is a Christian nation with lots of secular institutions in it.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:56 am

DannyM wrote:
RickD wrote:Danny, what specific "population's beliefs" do you mean? When I speak of "Christian", I mean the true church of God(all born-again believers) not some generic meaning of christian. Please tell me why you believe the US is a Christian nation. Please give specific answers. Thanks PS If you mean christian nation in a generic sense, then I agree that The US is a christian nation.
Because in polls taken in America the results ALWAYS come out in it being overwhelmingly a Christian country. How are you measuring whether or not many of these Christians are "real" Christians or not? What yard stick are you using and what research have you done in to whether or not these Christians live up to your definition?

Danny, What polls are you referring to? I only responded to a poll in Texasmomof3"s post about believing in "God". If you have a poll that asks specifically if someone believes in the Gospel of the Bible and justification by faith alone, then show me those polls. Otherwise, like I said before, The overwhelming majority of Saudis believe in God. Is Saudi Arabia a Christian nation?

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:00 am

Danny, you keep saying that America is a Christian nation, but you won't say specifically what makes it so. Please tell me SPECIFICALLY why you believe America to be a Christian nation by your definition. Thanks

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:05 am

RickD wrote:Danny, What polls are you referring to? I only responded to a poll in Texasmomof3"s post about believing in "God". If you have a poll that asks specifically if someone believes in the Gospel of the Bible and justification by faith alone, then show me those polls. Otherwise, like I said before, The overwhelming majority of Saudis believe in God. Is Saudi Arabia a Christian nation?

Rick, and what is wrong with TM3's poll? Your analogy with Saudi is bogus because it is not a Christian nation. America is a Christian nation and a poll that comes out with 9 out of 10 people believing in God automatically means that the overwhelming majority of those polled would be Christians (since the poll is being conducted in a Christian nation), and therefore the overwhelming majority of the 90% in favour of God are going to be in favour of the Christian concept of God. Now, your point is that many of these Christians are only small-c Christians; my question is how on earth do you know this? Listen, I'm not presuming to know more than you about your own country; I'm merely asking how you are measuring how many Christians do not fit your criteria?

DannyM · Post by **DannyM** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:11 am

RickD wrote:Danny, you keep saying that America is a Christian nation, but you won't say specifically what makes it so. Please tell me SPECIFICALLY why you believe America to be a Christian nation by your definition. Thanks

The crucial role of Christianity in that great nation's formation is clear, as Revolutionary leader Patrick Henry said: "It cannot be emphasised too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship."

Now, when you call America secular, what/who are you referring to? Government and institutions?

Evidence for God from Science

Health care reform - how does that play into being pro-life?

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