judas

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:00 pm

did judas plan to betray Jesus all along, or did he start off as a true follower. what was this guy thinking?

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:49 am

colors wrote:did judas plan to betray Jesus all along, or did he start off as a true follower. what was this guy thinking?

There was a discussion on him earlier I think. Maybe try a search... I do remember that he was very well trusted - he actually maintained the whole ministry's finances. Actually when Judas went off to betray Jesus, the rest of the disciples thought he went to count the money.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:52 am

I don't want to dig up the verses now but Judas had a bad attitude towards the money. I've researched this a little before and I concluded that the Bible portrays him exactly as we usually think of him- wicked. The apostles were pretty dense about a lot of things if you ask me! They might not have had enough insight to see Judas for what he was. Hey, only Peter got the question of who Jesus was right, even after all they witnessed of Him!

AttentionKMartShoppers · Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:22 pm

Well, they were fishermen, most of them, so they probably didn't have a great education....but, yeah, Judas is always seen as wicked. When a woman breaks a vase of perfume JUST

to rub on Jesus' feet, which she rubs in with her hair, Judas gets annoyed and asks why wasn't it used to feed the poor...and you're left with the idea, "you know, he probably doesn't care about the poor....he wants the money!"

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:02 am

I think there's another incident like that, and in one of those two it was Judas Iscariot himself who first said something about it, being very concerned! I think Jesus let him be treasurer, (Jesus was president, and Peter vice president?

J/K ) to expose more of his wickedness. If money was his "problem", or could most easily reveal his general state of "problem," then it makes sense Jesus would put him in this position. Jesus didn't need to worry about the treasurer stealing from the coin purse- He owns all of Creation! Heck, I'll bet He could make money come out of fish mouths... oh wait, He did!!! Judas as treasurer made his sin more sinful, (to use Paul's logic.)

On the density of the apostles, (did they weigh humans on scales back then? I know they must have had measuring tape,) they weren't stupid, but dense! People all around them recognized Jesus as God and the Son of God, but no! not the apostles! Jesus told them things directly, and they still didn't get it. The Holy Spirit chose not to reveal who Jesus was to them untill late in the day, and I wonder exactly why? Does anyone else know? Why did the Holy Spirit wait to reveal it to first Peter, and then even longer to the others?

j316 · Post by **j316** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:23 pm

If you look at the general tenor of the times Jesus was similar to a type of messianic prophet. He even warned of false christs to come. I get the impression that it wasn't until the resurrection that the disciples really accepted His divinity, and Thomas had a hard time with that.

The miracles were definitely remarkable but this was an age where magic was accepted as reality, there were other miracle workers around.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:41 am

kateliz wrote:On the density of the apostles, (did they weigh humans on scales back then? I know they must have had measuring tape,) they weren't stupid, but dense! People all around them recognized Jesus as God and the Son of God, but no! not the apostles! Jesus told them things directly, and they still didn't get it. The Holy Spirit chose not to reveal who Jesus was to them untill late in the day, and I wonder exactly why? Does anyone else know? Why did the Holy Spirit wait to reveal it to first Peter, and then even longer to the others?

Did you read that link about the 18 things that Christianity did wrong? It makes pretty clear just how radical the message of Christ was; I think there were a lot of ideas permeated through the society at the time that made Jesus very difficult for them to comprehend. Esspecially for devout Jews. So maybe that's part of why they were so slow to understand.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:56 am

Did you read that link about the 18 things that Christianity did wrong?

Felgar, link, now, on the double!

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:18 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
Did you read that link about the 18 things that Christianity did wrong?
Felgar, link, now, on the double!

MMGH. Do you know how much time it takes to dig some of those old threads up?

Anyways, here you are. From this thread http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... .php?t=190 jac posted a link to this article. http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nowayjose.html I only got done the first part, but it makes clear just how unconventional Jesus and His message was.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:49 pm

Ummm, that link sounds familiar. I think I came across it but didn't add it to my Favorites under "Look This Over", like I've doing for most referred links, which I haven't gotten back to. Ooops! But don't worry, all's not lost, I'll look at it sometime here! It's in my Favorites now.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:44 am

I think he might have just been misunderstood?

Evidence for God from Science

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