That's always tricky question to answer a strict yes/no response to.A Y323 wrote:Yeah, that's true. I guess I just wasn't thinking about that when I asked the question because we have the same God. Christians just believe Jesus is the Messiah and Jews do not. Right?
I have studied other religions in college.A Y323 wrote:Thanks for the comments everyone, I think I got what I was looking for.
I have another question then, if discussion on this topic is done. I'll ask it here since I don't think it would use a whole new thread.
Is it true that Christianity is the only religion with a God that cares about humans (aka a personal God)? I have not done any study of other religions, but I have heard that this is true.
Thanks again, this forum is very helpful!
Edit: how convenient, it started on a second page.
It was a semester class I took on the philosophy of religions... But then I got real curious about the other religions and have studied most of them. I think I own all the books, the Quran, Book of Mormon, Buddhist scriptures, etc..A Y323 wrote:Yes it does, thank you Gman. Was this an extensive course you took, or was it just a quick one-semester type class?
I see it as a yes and no question for sure when it get's to the Trinity..A Y323 wrote:Thanks to Kurieuo too. I haven't studied Judaism, so it's always been my understanding that Jesus as Messiah is the basic difference between Christians and Jews. But now that you have me thinking about it, I remember reading in another thread here that Jews do not believe in the Trinity of God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). They reject the Son (Jesus) and I'm not sure of their stance on the Holy Spirit, so do we really worship the same God? If they really reject the Trinity, then they have reduced God to a one-ness which would place Him on the same level as singular gods such as Zeus. That being the case, I would question whether it's okay to say we worship the same God.
Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean here...Gman wrote:I see it as a yes and no question for sure when it get's to the Trinity..
What I'm saying here is that while most Jewish scholars deny the Trinity in the OT, however, the Trinity does seem to be apparent in the OT.A Y323 wrote:Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean here...Gman wrote:I see it as a yes and no question for sure when it get's to the Trinity..
Source: http://www.biblicalresources.info/pages ... ityot.htmlWhile Trinitarian concepts are more explicitly laid out in the New Testament, they are implicitly revealed in the Old Testament. Clear intimations of Trinitarian concepts in the Hebrew Bible include:
1. The use of plural forms.
1. Pronouns, where God speaking, uses "us" and "our": Genesis 3:22 Genesis 11:7 Isaiah 6:8. The most important reference is Genesis 1:26-27; it is here where the plurality is used in connection with the very nature of God. This last reference is the most important (and compelling) one because here God uses plural forms in the context of his own "image and likeness."
2. The plural form for "Lord" used frequently in the Old Testament:'adonai ("Lord," literally, "my Masters"). The vowel in the last syllable of 'adonai was apparently lengthened by rabbis in the post-New Testament period. This is thought to have been done to sharpen the distinction between earthly lords and the Lord God.
3. The Old Testament had a singular term for God, Eloah, which they occasionally used, but the vast majority of the time the plural form of God, Elohim, is used throughout the Old Testament. Had there been only be two persons within God, the Hebrews could have used a dual form Elohiayim, which was typically (although not always) used of things that occured in pairs.
2. Usage of "one" in a composite sense.
1. Even though the Old Testament teaches that God is "one," (Deuteronomy 6:4) this does not conflict in any way with Trinitarian beliefs. On the contrary, it actually helps to affirm them. One of the most compelling examples in the Old Testament of the composite sense of "one" is found in Genesis 2:24. Two people (created in the "image" of God) become "one flesh" in the marriage union (and thus a sense of the "image" in a composite sense). The use of the Hebrew word for "one" (eXad) in other passages similarly demonstrates that this word means "one entity" rather than a strictly single, solitary thing.
3. Theophanies, where Christ appears in the form of the "Angel (or Messenger) of the Lord."
1. The Old Testament presents striking examples of a Being who, although He appears in the form of a man, acts and speaks like God and is referred to as God. Mysteriously, He is both identified as God and distinguished from God. We find this in passages such as Genesis 16:7-13; 18-19; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2-6; 23:20-23; Judges 6:11-14, 20-22; 13:21-23). Note also how Zechariah 12:8 equates God and the Angel of the Lord. These Theophanies were prepartory for the incarnation in that they anticipated the coming of a Heavenly Visitor who would one day be both truly God and man.
4. The "Son" passages:
The Old Testament describes a Being who is uniquely a human-divine Son. In the light of the New Testament we see that Jesus in His Being is the fulfillment of the Son of Man, the Son of God, and the Son-King (of which Solomon was a foreshadowing).
1. Proverbs 30:4
2. Isaiah 9:6 He is a son and child, but also the "mighty God."
3. Psalm 2:7-12 (although the translation of "son" in verse 12 can be disputed) This Psalm describes a Son-King who receives the nations as His inheritance.
4. Daniel 7:13-14 This passage forms the background behind Christ's use of the Messianic title "Son of Man." Note that the contexts of Psalm 2 and Daniel 7 have identical strands of thought: the inheriting of all the kingdoms of the earth. The word "Son of Man" does not here mean "a mortal man"--one from among the "sons of men." The point here is not that the Person is perfectly human. The significance of the title "Son of Man' in this passage is fourfold:
+ His exalted personality as the One who comes from heaven and opposes the beastly human powers, which come from earth (Daniel 7:3)
+ His advent in conjunction with the reappearance of the theophanic glory cloud (7:13),
+ His free access to the 'One who is an ancient of days' (God the Father, 7:13), and
+ His universal and everlasting reign (7:14). (J. B. Payne, Theology of the Older Testament, p. 265.)
5. The use of pronouns suggesting more than one Person within God.
1. The LORD talking, uses both "Me" and "Him" referring to the same Being (Christ) in Zechariah 12:10
2. The Angel of the Lord speaking, uses both "from Me" and "fearer of God" in referring to the same entity (Genesis 22:12).
6. Passages that identify two Beings as God or LORD (YHWH).
1. Genesis 19:23 (YHWH in heaven versus YHWH on earth)
2. Psalm 45:6-7 (God referring to Another as "God")
3. Zechariah 3:1-2 (YHWH calling upon YHWH: "And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan"
7. The Holy Spirit is linked with God and given attributes of personality.
1. All three Persons of the Trinity can be seen in Isaiah 63:8-10, but most importantly we see here the personality of the Holy Spirit. He is "vexed, grieved" by disobedience. This verb in Hebrew is always used in conjuntion with persons (or God and gods); never of inanimate things.
In the Old Testament the essential components for the doctrine of the Trinity were all laid down. What may have been enigma to the Jews of the Old Testament was revealed in full splendor in the New Testament! In the providence of God working through church history. It was only a matter of time before believers began to systematize and articulate these passages into meaningful theological statements. How wonderful it is to trace the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, from the subtle, germinal forms in the OT to the full blossom of explicit NT truth. As we reflect on the fact of the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ, may we also reflect upon the marvel, mystery, and wonder of the One we worship.
A Y323 wrote:Hello everyone. I've often wondered when atheistic thinking (that is, the belief that neither our God nor any other god exists) really became a widely accepted concept.
Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I bring it up because I just recently came across someone who said this: "I think not believing in any specific god is the natural thing any of us would have done if our parents and/or society did not present the concept in front of us."
Everything I've learned (which admittedly is not much) tells me this is just completely wrong.
What do you guys think?
We sin firstly againts the Lord our God. And more generations of people are not growing up in the faith, more sin. And sin leads to sin.Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Romans 1: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
OK, I see what you mean now. I am aware of how the OT shows the Trinity (I am currently going through the study laid out in this thread), and I do believe that the Jews of the OT were aware of the Trinity. So, yes- I absolutely believe we worship the same God from the OT and He has not changed. But I'm not sure why modern Jews reject the Trinity.Gman wrote:What I'm saying here is that while most Jewish scholars deny the Trinity in the OT, however, the Trinity does seem to be apparent in the OT.
This stuck out to me because I was recently reading through the plagues on Egypt in Exodus, and I was really surprised to read that Pharaoh's "wise men" were able to duplicate some of the miracles that Moses and Aaron did.3. The satanic dimension: While some religions may be the mere product of human speculation, at least some forms of religion are actually energized by Satan and his minions (Matt. 24:24; 1 Cor. 10:14-22).
Scripture indicates that Satan and demons (fellow angels who followed him in rebellion) stand behind pagan idolatry, actively blinding the minds of unbelievers. Their motive is to deceive mankind with a powerful spiritual counterfeit.
...
You stated correctly in a previous post that Atheism (well really any belief that differed from the majority opinion) was a punishable offense for a good majority of both ancient and relatively modern, and still some present day, societies. Socrates was made to drink poison as punishment for his questioning of citizens on the subject of the religion of their time. According to Plato (I have not read about this in years so I might not be 100% accurate) Socrates made no statement against the Greek gods but rather engaged fellow citizens in conversation regarding them, this alone was cause to have him put to death despite his reputation and the high regard many of his countrymen held him in. You of course have the inquisition which targeted pretty much everybody including other Christians, Jews and I am sure Atheists.A Y323 wrote:Hello everyone. I've often wondered when atheistic thinking (that is, the belief that neither our God nor any other god exists) really became a widely accepted concept.
Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I bring it up because I just recently came across someone who said this: "I think not believing in any specific god is the natural thing any of us would have done if our parents and/or society did not present the concept in front of us."
Religion might very well be the source of ones main purpose, but to say Atheism takes purpose out of an Atheist's life is untrue. The acceptable answer, as you put it, is that an individual can propose ones own purpose. I am getting off track, but the long and short answer to your question is Atheism has "come out of the closet" with the separation of church and state that most of the western world now enjoys. That was not present in ancient Greece, was not present in Europe until a couple hundred years ago, of course the separation of church and state often gets the same consideration that spitting on sidewalks is given, but with society catching up to the idea and mostly embracing it it has opened the door for other belief (or lack of belief) systems to come about. Including Scientology which makes it *almost* seem a good idea to burn people at the stake again.A Y323 wrote:Thanks Danny.
I agree, and it seems pretty obvious to me even with the little study of history that I've done. So I'm curious why "life has no meaning" has (somewhat recently) become an acceptable answer to a lot of people.Humanity has always looked for meaning, spiritual meaning that transcends strict empiricism and the illusion of pure reason. Contrary to your quote, which has a whiff of Dawkins about it, humanity has always been on such a quest.
