Do animals go to heaven?

BavarianWheels · Post by **BavarianWheels** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:18 am

RGeeB wrote:God formed man out of the dust and gave him the 'breath of life' - Then man became a living soul. Then what is a dead soul? - A soul without a physical body? So, the conclusion is that God creates soul at birth, Also, to be noted is that humans do not enter the world the same way anymore.

Your words deny your claim. "Then man became a living soul. It is a formula. No where does it say God reached into some soul vault and put "Adam" into the body of dust.

Please notice the name "Adam" does not appear until Gen. 2:20...after having named the animals. Isn't this interesting that up until this point the created being, Adam, is simply referred to as 'the man'? God certainly knew what his name would be right? This is subtle proof that Adam was not a disembodied soul floating around God's "soul cabinet" and then was put into a body. Even after this text the scripture refers to Adam as 'man.' God put "man" into a deep sleep. God used "man's rib"...

Edit: Both 'man' and Adam are the same word.

Adam also names Eve, but we don't find this out until after the fall. (Gen. 3:20)

RGeeB wrote:Also, souls in the Bible which need clarification of their existence - The ghost of Samuel at Endor and the souls under the altar of the martyrs in heaven (in revelation).

This is total speculation. God makes it plain that this type of behavior is evil and defiles one. (Lev. 19:31) It is prostituting self (Lev. 20:6) consulting them is evil (2 Kings 21:6, 2 Chron. 33:6) They are detestable and went against the law (2 Kings 23:24)

Now...with all this having been said and set by God...is it possible that the spirit that (incidently came up out of the ground and not down from heaven where the "soul" of Samuel would certainly be. See 1 Samuel 28:13) manifest itself through the evil medium and for the enemy of God (Saul) was really Samuel or even of God?

Further more, "Samuel" says, ""Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy?"

The LORD is Saul's enemy now...and Saul goes against God's will in consulting a medium. God was not answering Saul. Why would God allow "Samuel" to answer Saul if Saul was now his enemy? Is God now trying to teach us that when He is silent that we can consult mediums and spiritists? Hardly!!

The truth is, is that the spirit that came up out of the ground was not Samuel at all, but an evil spirit...a spirit that knew the truth and testified to it. (Mark 5:6-9) Even evil spirits can testify to the truth!

RGeeB wrote:It appears that the created soul sleeps upon physical death, while some exceptional souls go to be in heaven temporarily (Stephen the martyr). Then, upon the waking of souls (the resurrection), both types get the glorified bodies to be with Christ in the millenium. Do we have the same glorified body in the new creation?

Stephen is no more in heaven than Samuel. They are both dead. They are dead and they know nothing. The "souls" of Samuel and Stephen are safe in the "bosom of Abraham"...safe in the promise...safe in that they had faith in Christ...safe from hell...safe...they are not rewarded...yet.

Revelation 22:12 NIV wrote:"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me..."

The reward of life is given at Christ's second coming.

This has turned to a soul sleep vs. disembodied souls in heaven topic. But it had to I guess, given the topic's nature.
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RGeeB · Post by **RGeeB** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:30 am

..where are Moses, Elijah and Enoch?

ps. I agree that souls are not introduced on earth from a vault!

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:01 am

Sorry to interject, but on the topic of 'soul sleep,' what is the explanation for Jesus' statement on the cross:

Luke 23:42-43
Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

BavarianWheels · Post by **BavarianWheels** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:20 am

Felgar wrote:Sorry to interject, but on the topic of 'soul sleep,' what is the explanation for Jesus' statement on the cross:

Luke 23:42-43
Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Maybe if you read the whole of the thread instead of just the last two posts, you'd understand where we are in that context.

Felgar: The first answer I would give you on this is this: Where in the original text is the comma?
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Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:37 am

I read back a page and a half, and it seemed the emerging debate about sould sleep had begun recently... If not, I appologize.

About the comma I copied it from this online Bible, NIV version: http://bible.gospelcom.net/. So you're saying that it should read: "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

Perhaps... But to argue for invalidating portions of Biblical passage based on apparent discrepancies to original texts (which are likey not well understand by the vast majority of people) is a very slippery slope. Anyways, thanks for the response, please continue.

BavarianWheels · Post by **BavarianWheels** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:50 am

Felgar wrote:I read back a page and a half, and it seemed the emerging debate about sould sleep had begun recently... If not, I appologize.

About the comma I copied it from this online Bible, NIV version: http://bible.gospelcom.net/. So you're saying that it should read: "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

Perhaps... But to argue for invalidating portions of Biblical passage based on apparent discrepancies to original texts (which are likey not well understand by the vast majority of people) is a very slippery slope. Anyways, thanks for the response, please continue.

First...I'm sorry for sounding so short with you.

I'm saying there is no punctuation in the original text. Placement of the comma is purely by preconceived ideas, bias. It can certainly be read both ways. That's all I'm saying.

I did only address the issue a few posts back, only because Jac3510 seems to be picking and choosing when God speaks to the body and when God speaks to the soul.

Welcome, btw.

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Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:56 am

BavarianWheels wrote:First...I'm sorry for sounding so short with you.

Welcome, btw.

No problem, and thanks.

It appears I didn't read back carefull enough.

Now that I'm here I can keep up; shouldn't happen again.

Oh btw, if you have any views on violence in the OT please see the thread I started which was my original purpose for signing on. I was never intent on getting involved in another so quickly, but what can I say; it's my nature.

RGeeB · Post by **RGeeB** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:21 am

Well, going back to the original question in the context of Revelation chapters 21 and 22: Do animals have a place in the new heaven and the new earth?

I don't see any evidence either way - selective pets could be resurrected to dwell outside of New Jerusalem, or maybe inside? - I can't tell; can anyone else read any subtle clues?

It says that only the pure will enter the pearly gates and the river and tree of life will be for the healing of all the nations. In the glorified state, will the new earth operate under the same laws of science as the old one?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:04 am

BavarianWheels wrote:
Felgar wrote:I read back a page and a half, and it seemed the emerging debate about sould sleep had begun recently... If not, I appologize.

About the comma I copied it from this online Bible, NIV version: http://bible.gospelcom.net/. So you're saying that it should read: "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

Perhaps... But to argue for invalidating portions of Biblical passage based on apparent discrepancies to original texts (which are likey not well understand by the vast majority of people) is a very slippery slope. Anyways, thanks for the response, please continue.
First...I'm sorry for sounding so short with you.

I'm saying there is no punctuation in the original text. Placement of the comma is purely by preconceived ideas, bias. It can certainly be read both ways. That's all I'm saying.

Yes. Exactly. So how are we going to decide about the placement of the comma? We must decide to place the comma (if it is necesary to do so) based on what the other scriptures are saying. And the rest of the scriptures tell us that Christ did not return to heaven RIGHT AFTER he breathed his last nor he did return to heaven on that very day (Friday??). He returned to heaven AFTER 40 days (John 20:17; Acts 1:3)

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:01 am

ThirdOption wrote:Yes. Exactly. So how are we going to decide about the placement of the comma? We must decide to place the comma (if it is necesary to do so) based on what the other scriptures are saying. And the rest of the scriptures tell us that Christ did not return to heaven RIGHT AFTER he breathed his last nor he did return to heaven on that very day (Friday??). He returned to heaven AFTER 40 days (John 20:17; Acts 1:3)

Just to keep this thread on topic, please continue this discussion in this thread: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 0&start=15

Thanks,
Kurieuo.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:24 pm

i know that jesus stated something to the effect that God knows every animal personally--...not a single sparrow falls without the knowledge of the Father (not exact words...i read it but don't remember where). wouldn't this imply that each animal is unique unto themselves? what makes them unique if not a soul?