Hugh Ross & Jason Lisle

[RickD]

I just finished watching 2 separate hour long videos from a show called "Insight with Paul Arthur". The first show had Hugh Ross as an in studio guest. The next show, and next night, has Jason Lisle as a guest by telephone. Both shows had the guest tell why he believes in Old Earth Creationism(Hugh Ross) or Young Earth Creationism(Jason Lisle). Each guest also had time to answer questions from callers. While running the risk of beating a dead horse, I just had to point out the arrogance of Lisle again. Lisle said we can't question what God has said in His Word. Jason, don't you really mean that we can't question YOUR INTERPRETATION of God's Word? When a caller called in to say as believers that we shouldn't be dogmatic about creation beliefs because it will turn people away, Lisle also said that when people came to Christ, Christ was "very dogmatic". And "when Jesus quoted scripture, that was the end of the matter." Jason, did you just equate Christ's quoting of HIS scripture to your INTERPRETATION of scripture? Here are the links to the videos if anyone is interested. They are long, but Ross' video taught me some new things, and reinforced some things that I had already heard. http://www.miraclechannel.ca/insight/wa ... d=IS90-101 and http://www.miraclechannel.ca/insight/wa ... d=IS90-100

[DannyM]

I just finished watching 2 separate hour long videos from a show called "Insight with Paul Arthur". The first show had Hugh Ross as an in studio guest. The next show, and next night, has Jason Lisle as a guest by telephone. Both shows had the guest tell why he believes in Old Earth Creationism(Hugh Ross) or Young Earth Creationism(Jason Lisle). Each guest also had time to answer questions from callers. While running the risk of beating a dead horse, I just had to point out the arrogance of Lisle again. Lisle said we can't question what God has said in His Word. Jason, don't you really mean that we can't question YOUR INTERPRETATION of God's Word? When a caller called in to say as believers that we shouldn't be dogmatic about creation beliefs because it will turn people away, Lisle also said that when people came to Christ, Christ was "very dogmatic". And "when Jesus quoted scripture, that was the end of the matter." Jason, did you just equate Christ's quoting of HIS scripture to your INTERPRETATION of scripture? Here are the links to the videos if anyone is interested. They are long, but Ross' video taught me some new things, and reinforced some things that I had already heard. http://www.miraclechannel.ca/insight/wa ... d=IS90-101 and http://www.miraclechannel.ca/insight/wa ... d=IS90-100

Very good Rick! Pleasure to hear Mr. Ross in action. Regarding Lisle's arrogance, it's simply breathtaking that he keeps using this tactic of assuming his interpretation is the only viable interpretation of the Word. He (and Ham) have this air of sheer arrogance and the idea that they are somehow elevated above others in this debate. "Just look at God's Word..." Umm, but I am reading God's Word, and I aint getting the same reading as you, pal!" There is an immediate, arrogant assumption that his interpretation of God's Word is the correct one, thus making him tedious to listen to.

[Jac3510]

Haven't we gone through the argument about calling others arrogant before?

[Canuckster1127]

Haven't we gone through the argument about calling others arrogant before?

And yet arrogance still exists in places. So what's worse ... the arrogance regardless of source, or the pointing it out?

[RickD]

Haven't we gone through the argument about calling others arrogant before?

Jac, we've gone through it at least a few times since I've been here on this forum. I'm sure you've been through it many times before. As long as Lisle persists, and I see it, I'll point it out. It was a new video, not an old one that I've already discussed before. If I saw a video by a prominent OEC with Lisle's arrogance, I'd point it out as well. In my opinion, it is unacceptable for a man in Lisle's position to behave that way. I get the impression that you feel you have to defend Lisle's actions. If I believe in OEC, and an OEC'r acted as Lisle does, I wouldn't need to defend him.

[DannyM]

Perhaps Jac simply objects to calling anyone arrogant. If this is Jac's standard then I for one could hardly criticise such restraint.
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[RickD]

Perhaps Jac simply objects to calling anyone arrogant. If this is Jac's standard then I for one could hardly criticise such restraint.
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If that is the case, then I understand. Danny, I think you are correct about Lisle's arrogance. The one thing that I noticed about this newer video compared to Lisle's past videos, is that lisle seems to be more subtle in his arrogance. Maybe he is learning to be more receptive to others' views?

[DannyM]

Perhaps Jac simply objects to calling anyone arrogant. If this is Jac's standard then I for one could hardly criticise such restraint.
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If that is the case, then I understand. Danny, I think you are correct about Lisle's arrogance. The one thing that I noticed about this newer video compared to Lisle's past videos, is that lisle seems to be more subtle in his arrogance. Maybe he is learning to be more receptive to others' views?

Rick,

Or maybe he is learning how to, as you say, be more subtle with his arrogance.

[RickD]

Perhaps Jac simply objects to calling anyone arrogant. If this is Jac's standard then I for one could hardly criticise such restraint.
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If that is the case, then I understand. Danny, I think you are correct about Lisle's arrogance. The one thing that I noticed about this newer video compared to Lisle's past videos, is that lisle seems to be more subtle in his arrogance. Maybe he is learning to be more receptive to others' views?

Rick,

Or maybe he is learning how to, as you say, be more subtle with his arrogance.

Yes Danny, You're probably correct. What was I thinking?

[Kurieuo]

Perhaps Jac simply objects to calling anyone arrogant. If this is Jac's standard then I for one could hardly criticise such restraint.

I don't think Jac is that PC as to think it wrong to be calling anyone arrogant. Certainly, many people are arrogant, and no one is immune from arrogance. I am sure I am even myself arrogant on the very, very, extremely rare occasion.

[Canuckster1127]

Say it aint so, K?!?!?!?

[DannyM]

Perhaps Jac simply objects to calling anyone arrogant. If this is Jac's standard then I for one could hardly criticise such restraint.

I don't think Jac is that PC as to think it wrong to be calling anyone arrogant. Certainly, many people are arrogant, and no one is immune from arrogance. I am sure I am even myself arrogant on the very, very, extremely rare occasion.

Sure, sure. My fault. I was aiming to say that I think Jac might be saying for the sake of this debatewe should refrain from labeling anyone arrogant. I'm arrogant at times. I don't meant it, but I'm sure I become very tedious when I am. I'll take the medicine as well as dish it out But thankfully it's not about me

Jac as he has been consistent with his objection. To my knowledge he has abided by it.

I would rather criticise the attitude of Lisle.

[Dallas]

And this is why it's hard for people to come to know Christ. There is arguments among Christians.

[RickD]

And this is why it's hard for people to come to know Christ. There is arguments among Christians.

I disagree. Let's argue.

[Kurieuo]

And this is why it's hard for people to come to know Christ. There is arguments among Christians.

What makes you say that? I'm more inclined to think its hard for people to come to Christ firstly because God chose a method seemingly foolish by which to save us, and secondly for their own emotional reasons they willingly choose to ignore the truth. They won't even look in God's direction one iota until their hand is forced to do so through some life changing experience. Using others as an excuse is just pushing away one's own responsibility.

Arguments which play ball rather than the person are fruitful and help us to test whether something is truly from God and hang onto the good. (1 Thess 5:21) There is nothing wrong with reasonable disputes, and if noone ever questions well that leads to brainwashing and cults.