Obiwan wrote:Thank you Gman and B.W for your Christlike responses.
It may be some time before a next response comes forth due to life's events and struggle's each day for me but I will get back with you as soon as time allows. My mental/physical challenge along with my feeble computer skills make it a challenge to keep up, so please be patient.
In His Debt/Grace Obiwan LDS JEDI KNIGHT
While you are away — here is a bit more to ponder….
Mormon wittings and doctrine clearly states God's purpose is for people to become their own gods equal with him however the bible poses problems form Mormon theology:
Isa 48:11 - For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.
Isa 42:8-9 - I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. Behold, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them." NKJV
These scriptures pose problems for Mormon doctrine because if the lesser singular god Jesus (little jehovah i.e. yahweh jr) is speaking in these verses, then Jesus would be exalting himself above the Big singular father god (elohim) by stating he shares not his glory to no one then the D&C 132 states he does just that!
Now if lesser singular Jesus god jr is referring to him being of equal class with big god i.e. one as Mormonism seems too alludes to in its definition of oneness, this then suggest that both the lesser and Big god can never share their glory with one another either or anyone else for that matter due to nature plural oneness as Mormonism define it. No matter how you try to slice it, God will not give his glory to another.
And anyway, how can there really be a lesser god when the D&C says that one can be equal to god in power and all authority and dominion???? How can there even be a lesser singular jesus god and a big singular superior god — would not this violate the principles set forth in D&C 132 as well as big god's intent to make gods equal with him? If instead this means equal to jesus — then no one can be equal to him —
this makes no sense…
Hmmm, would that mean, that the spirit children that Mormonism teaches about become greater than jesus since jesus is lesser? Or would it mean that to be in equal in power, and in might, and in dominion means god shares his glory so his spirit children can become greater than jesus? But if what God says is true in the bible — then he can't share his glory with anyone — and there can be no lesser gods in any from
— did he not also say that there was no god formed before him or follow after him as well?
1. D&C 132: 17, 19-20,
Doctrine and Covenants
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
D&C 76:95 quote below
95
And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.
Another problem Mormon doctrine has, is that it believes that people become individual gods, with goddess wives, over their respective planet and that big father god is a god amongst all other gods. In other words, father god has a father and so forth. Who is big Father god's father and who is his grandfather, great grandfather, etc and etc?
The reason for this, is to explain away the hermeneutics of any bible verses like the ones quoted above and elsewhere used in my discourse thus far. From what I gather from reading Mormon text and Mormon's themselves is that according to them, there will be only one head honcho god and his family to rule a planet somewhere in the universe. Where they are involved in some form of spirit sex and have millions of spirit god children.
These spirit god children will need to learn how to be like daddy and mommy. So they are permitted to come into mortalness by birth on earth, learn their lessons, die and then be transferred out of their home planet sphere to their own planet as
exalted along with their brood. Thus avoid the embarrassing issue posed by the bible not properly translated in what it means —
god not sharing his glory (planet) or Hey, you all - No gods after me will rule my planet! take hike - off my cloud!
Thus they are true to the bible saying that only big daddy god and his family remain unchallenged and that is how head god cannot share his glory with another. How because - the millions of spirit god children grow-up and off they go leaving the one head honcho god in charge of the home and hearth planet sphere.
This means that only one head god remains over one small planet midst a vast universe amongst all other gods and their goddess wives having spiritual sex making millions of spirit god children who need to be born mortal to learn how to become like daddy and mommy...then booted out the nest to their own planets: So only one head big daddy god rules so none like him remain in his planet dominion — thus none like him fulfilled. But wasn't it supposed to be god's duty to make other gods who are equal with him? Ah yes — but not on his pad — planet!
However, the text and hermeneutics of the bible are very plain — there will BE NO OTHER GODs FROMED or FOLLOW AFTER — GOD WILL NOT SHARE HIS GLORY — PERIOD! And Deuteronomy 6:4 states — “
HEAR, O ISRAEL: Yahweh our Elohim, Yahweh is one.”
If there are no other gods ruling this planet sphere yet there are other gods per various planets in the universe then would not big god here in his home realm still be stating an untruth? It would be like me telling a child, I am the only adult that exists while at the same time the child sees other adults walking about. Is not that an untruth told to the child?
God is not a man that he should lie. God is perfect in all his ways, no iniquity in him, he is pure and perfect the bible teaches us. How then could god so state an untruth that there are no other gods beside him nor will ever be formed before or follow after him and yet there still be other gods?
Oh I forgot he's only referring to his planet sphere of influence; however, this would still prove Mormon's big god unable to get the facts straight, er unable to tell the truth… hmm erred- lied? Add that to D&C 132 where one is to be equal with god — wow you got a problem with a god who can't get the facts straight!
When the bible says that none will share God's glory — then in D&C says he will share it — isn't that puzzling? Or better states a contradiction?
Then again - why is it Joseph Smith was so fixated on sex all throughout his writings and in the D&C
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501—507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
1—6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7—14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15—20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21—25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26—27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28—39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40—47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48—50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51—57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58—66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.....
...54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds.
56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.
57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for Satan seeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his exaltation and glory....
60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.
64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.
66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and ...
Just read the whole of it yourself here at
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132
Then compare with the psychological profile of a sex offender / pedophile and how they use religion to justify their acts and deeds — the correlation is too striking to be mere coincidence.
Let me clearly state clearly that I am not impugning that all Mormon men are sex offenders. Majority of Mormon men are decent family men, husband of one wife, have high moral values, etc. and are not like Joseph Smith, B. Young, Pratt — the founders. They are simply caught up in a religious system founded upon pure weirdness, and like everyone else, needs Jesus Christ to save them.
What I am pointing out is that the very founders of Mormonism were sex offenders based upon their own theology, fixation on sex, and having dominating controlling power no one dare cross as well as an over inflated egotistical grandiose sense of self importance that all sex offenders have in common. All this is well recorded within their writings evidenced from D&C 132 as but just one example.
And by the way D&C 132:64-66 you read it right it means administer SEX -just as it sounds... So if the ladies did not put out and give into every sex whim of the man - they could be destroyed - you got that???
That is not the God of the Bible - is it??
That is the sad truth of the historical roots of Mormonism.
Things have changed as this kind of polygamy is not practiced as it once was. Some sects of Mormonism still do but it is outlawed. But I only intended to point out the text, in order to point out the truth about the founders themselves
not anyone else in the realm of Mormondom. So take this as a bit of history and as Glen Beck says...
never be afraid to question with boldness…
You draw your own conclusions...
-
-
-
Poor Emma Smith -
no honey i gotta headache nights for her... think about it...
]. I have already told you my position in my last post
. Now Where in Gen 3:5 does it state that satan is offering full godhood to Adam and Eve ?, satan made 2 statements - #1 A lie -that they would not die, #2 - A truth -They would be "as gods knowing good from evil", see vrs 22 where the LORD states Behold the man "HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL". I have tried to be Christlike in my responses but I see it does not work. Just as the book by Mark Knoll presents in it's title 'The Scandle of The Evangelical Mind", I can see it first hand again. However in my many years of conversations/meetings with those Protestant Evangelicals many would put you to shame by there awesome Christlike interaction with me. Thank you again for reminding me why I am no longer a right wing Evangelical. There is no mote, only Love my evangelical friend
.