The Bible is light years ahead of science

[CLLblogger]

The Bible and Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity

A Bible verse discovered to verify Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity proves divine wisdom inspired the Bible. It also adds credence to how a 24 hour period in the presence of God would mean simultaneously passing through 1000 earth years.

2 Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Read entire article here:

http://www.christianlearninglounge.net/ ... ivity.html

[dayage]

CLL,

The verse does not say "a day IS a thousand years." This is an analogy. Peter uses the word hos (like, as). Moses says a similar thing

For a thousand years in Your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.” (Psalm 90:4, NIV)

Here MOSES tells us that time has no meaning to God. A thousand years are compared to a day that is over, which contains no time at all. The thousand years are also compared to “a watch in the night.” During Old Testament times night was divided into three watches, each being about four hours long. Again we do not find an equation. Moses uses the word ke (like, as).

[CLLblogger]

The verse does not say "a day IS a thousand years." This is an analogy. Peter uses the word hos (like, as). Moses says a similar thing

For a thousand years in Your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.” (Psalm 90:4, NIV)

Here MOSES tells us that time has no meaning to God. A thousand years are compared to a day that is over, which contains no time at all. The thousand years are also compared to “a watch in the night.” During Old Testament times night was divided into three watches, each being about four hours long. Again we do not find an equation. Moses uses the word ke (like, as).

The fact is Moses compared a thousand years to a full day before mentioning the passing of a night which is the end of a full day. Moses speaking of the ending of a day does not dismiss or make separate the full day. There is a reason why Moses and Peter conveyed how God sees time by comparison to time on earth. The Word of God profoundly proves Einstein's equation which is very different from being an equation.

It is hard to follow your thinking since you are attributing words on behalf of Moses and Peter without expounding on what they clearly said. No where does Peter or Moses say what they learned about God's view of time was an analogy or an opinion. In fact, Peter presented it as something of critical importance that we should commit to memory. Moses was speaking as if He had the privilege of seeing time from God's perspective. Moses knew better than to misrepresent God. The revelation of God's time was something Moses learned in the presence of God. Peter was moved to teach us about the light of God's time so we are not deceived by the passing of time on earth.

God reveals things in due season at times He appoints. If time is not important to God, why is He keeping the day and hour of the second coming of Christ secret?

Matthew 24:34-36 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The above introduction to my article is not enough to draw conclusions without considering all the content and context of the full article.

[dayage]

The fact is Moses compared a thousand years to a full day before mentioning the passing of a night which is the end of a full day. Moses speaking of the ending of a day does not dismiss or make separate the full day.

I'm glad to see you say Moses COMPARES a thousand years to a day, not that it equals a day. But, you are missing the point that he also compares it to a period of 4 hours (not the night). So, he is saying that a thousand years is like a 24-hour period and it is like a 4-hour period.

You still have not dealt with the evidence for analogy in the words hos and ke.

Then you have the problem that Genesis 2:4 says all of the creation days are one day.

Hebrews chapter 4 says we can still join God in His 7th day. Even for young-earth creationists that would be about a 6,000 year long day. Or wait, if we combine Genesis 2:4, with what you believe about the creation, and Hebrews 4 we see that a day can also equal 6,000 years.

Then there is the problem with your calculation. A year is 365.24 days long. Retry the math and see what you get. If you are trying to show divine wisdom behind the numbers, then do not fudge them.

The creation days are seen from our time frame (Genesis 1.2, the Spirit is over the surface of the global ocean), so how would you see the issue of the age of the universe (i.e. light travel time). The universe is 13.7 billion years old.

In fact, Peter presented it as something of critical importance that we should commit to memory.

Let us look at Peyers point:
Peter, in his 2nd epistle chapter three, is dealing with scoffers:

and saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation'” (2 Peter 3:4 NASB).

The second part of this verse is dealt with in verses 5-7, but the question found at the beginning, “Where is the promise of His coming?” is answered in verses 8-9.

When the scoffers asked the question above, they may have been referring to Jesus' own words, “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also” (John 14:3 NASB). They may also have been mocking the Apostles' testimony, because we read “the day is near” (Romans 13:11-12), “the coming of the Lord is at hand” (James 5:8), “the end of all things is near” (1 Peter 4:7), etc. It had been about 30 years since Jesus had returned to the Father, so Peter answered:

But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:8-9, NASB)

As I said, Peter wrote this about 30 years after Christ's ascension. Now it has been about 2,000 years, but the Lord is still not slow about His promise, as some count slowness.

Moses knew better than to misrepresent God.

Using an analogy is not the same as misrepresenting.

[dayage]

A year is 365.24 days long.

OOOPS! A day is about 365.25 days.

[dayage]

OOOPS! A day is about 365.25 days.

I am truly geeting old. A YEAR is about 365.25 days long.

[dayage]

GEETING = getting

[CLLblogger]

It amazes me that your counter arguments only attempt to exalt the knowledge of man over the wisdom of God. Is His reach so short that He would rely on a big bang and wait 13 billion years for His creation to be propelled into formation to be viewed from earth? Maybe you don't believe in the power of God as Creator and that it is more than enough to set things billions of light years apart and in motion from the beginning. You reduce the power of God to finite notions of man and a belief in a chaotic big bang theory. The perfect orbital paths of our solar system requires absolute accuracy in order for life as we know it to be sustained on earth. In what laboratory was it ever proven that a big bang can produce life as on earth on a grand scale with incredible diversity and all that supports it in absolute perfection? Has anyone who dare challenge the biblical account of creation ever found life other than where God spoke it into being? After spending billions of dollars researching matter billions of light years apart and many years of space explorations, the conclusion is earth is the only place where life exists and is sustainable. If life produced and adapted itself without a supreme being then why does it take super computers to deconstruct the genetic structures of life? With global pollution and the increase need for transportation, evolutionary theory should show signs of adaptation by producing lungs with better air filters and wings for human travel. It's hard to sweep the origin and delicacy of life under the big bang rug. If a big bang is life producing, then why do all mankind fear a global nuclear war? The Bible does support a far reaching big bang that is likewise destructive without the universe rebounding and collapsing upon itself.

2 Peter 3:10-13 - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Do you suppose it would take God billions of years to create new heavens and a new earth while His saints wait and dream of not being homeless?

There is nothing I can tell you that will force light into the dark shadows of the mind. Let it be that we disagree. It is God's will that what I say is foolishness to you. The time will come when everyone will agree upon the awesome power and wisdom of God according to His Word. For those who do not believe on Him and place their bets on billions of light years of mostly empty space void of life except upon earth, it will be too late to recalculate in the light of His judgment.

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

[Canuckster1127]

It's certainly possible that God could have intended a connection there, although it seems odd that he would choose to match our understanding today about quantum physics back then. What if and when more is discovered about Quantum Physics 100 years from now and this doesn't quite fit as well as you try to fit it now? God's word won't be wrong, will it? Your interpretation will be. So why not just admit that this is an interpretation of yours and not try to equate it with the Bible itself?

Perhaps then you'd find others more open to your opinions and less inclined to hear condescension in your words and approaches.

[dayage]

Big Bang did not produced life, this seems to be what God used to produce the first elements. Stars were used to produce (and they still do) produce the rest. Do you even know what the big bang teaches? It tells us thay the universe is not eternal, that something or someone from beyond (transcendent to) the matter, energy and space-time our this universe had to bring it into existence. It teaches that the universe is expanding. It teaches that the laws governing the universe are constant.

Bible:
Teaches the the universe, including its matter, energy and space-time had a transcendent cause (GOD), that GOD is cause the universe to stretch out (continually, see link) and the laws governing the universe are fixed (Jeremiah 33:25). Same story.
http://www.reasons.org/cosmic-design/bi ... t-it-first

The big bang was finely tuned, not chaotic. It was not an "explosion" of something that existed. Astronomers directly observe the past, so we know that the objects are as old as we measure.

Dr. Ross has debated young-earth astronomers many times. Dr. Faulkner (ICR) and Dr. Lisle (AIG) both publically agreed to debate in front of professional Christian astronomers. Dr. Lisle backed out, but Dr. Faulkner followed through. You can read the opinion of the debate from the astronomy panel:
http://www.reasons.org/special-edition- ... e-universe

The period of creation takes on a whole new light if we factor 6000 highly accelerated earth years into God's six days of work.

So you believe God could not create the earth in six earth days? Your saying it took Him 6,000 earth years to do it.

Do you suppose it would take God billions of years to create new heavens and a new earth while His saints wait and dream of not being homeless?

I doubt it, because all I can see from the text is that there will be a New Earth (and heavens). There do not seem to be any stars, no sun, no moon, etc (Revelation 21:23, 25; 22:5).

I'm an old-earth creationist, not a theistic evolutionist, so most of what you said I agree with. The big bang is not the same as evolution. Try not to jump to conclusions about what others believe.

I still want to see your new math with the actual length of a year included.

[CLLblogger]

It's certainly possible that God could have intended a connection there, although it seems odd that he would choose to match our understanding today about quantum physics back then. What if and when more is discovered about Quantum Physics 100 years from now and this doesn't quite fit as well as you try to fit it now? God's word won't be wrong, will it? Your interpretation will be. So why not just admit that this is an interpretation of yours and not try to equate it with the Bible itself?

Perhaps then you'd find others more open to your opinions and less inclined to hear condescension in your words and approaches.

I agree God's Word is true regardless of any flaw in interpretations. If we allow God's Word to be interpreted as written without science, second guesses, or opinions, it would not deviate from what is written. The Bible presents God's proclamation as creator of all things. Light, time, matter, and space are major components of creation subjected to scientific investigation and explorations. It is not far fetched that Physics gained prominence, reliability, and accuracy based on the orderly function of God's creation. Discovering His creation means discovering His power and glory. My article is a compilation of years of reflections and findings based on taking God at His Word. If my conclusions deviate from the Word of God, then they are void and of no use to anyone. If they reflect the Word of God, then it is another beam of light reflecting His power and glory. My motivation is not to prove God's Word but to point out His handy work. He will declare Himself.

[Canuckster1127]

If we allow God's Word to be interpreted as written without science, second guesses, or opinions, it would not deviate from what is written.

Good luck with that. What you've just suggested sounds to me that you imagine that the Bible is without human elements. It was delivered by God through humans, to humans and humans are always involved in it's understanding and interpretation. Set aside for a moment the nature of language, culture, time variance and translation and there's plenty of reason for caution and humility in approaching the word of God and presuming to have a clear understanding of every element of what the Bible says let alone then attempting to reconcile it with something like physics which was most certainly not primarily on the minds of those God used to deliver his Scriptures.

I have no issue with making the attempt. Perhaps a little less dogmaticism and appeal to your own authority, experience and expertise would remove some barriers from others considering what you have to say.

Just a thought. Welcome by the way. I hope you'll enter into and interact on other threads and both contribute and perhaps consider some different points of view than what you bring.

blessings,

bart

[CLLblogger]

If we allow God's Word to be interpreted as written without science, second guesses, or opinions, it would not deviate from what is written.

Good luck with that. What you've just suggested sounds to me that you imagine that the Bible is without human elements. It was delivered by God through humans, to humans and humans are always involved in it's understanding and interpretation. Set aside for a moment the nature of language, culture, time variance and translation and there's plenty of reason for caution and humility in approaching the word of God and presuming to have a clear understanding of every element of what the Bible says let alone then attempting to reconcile it with something like physics which was most certainly not primarily on the minds of those God used to deliver his Scriptures.

I do appreciate your reaching out to me as a newbie here. Just to clarify what I mean by letting God's Word interpret itself. I am aware that the flawed nature of man is part of the scripting and narration of the Bible. I am also convinced that there is one voice that stands apart from man's throughout the Bible. That voice is the consistent voice of God and the one I trust. As for the voice of man, I believe they are our controlled examples given to learn the difference between thoughts and behaviors that pleases God and those that don't. I believe that God's will is clearly communicated even through flawed men by the power of His Spirit. I am not given to following or trusting the voice of man as I do God unless they are quoting Him directly or conveying observations that are consistent with what God has demonstrated or spoken. In other God inspired words:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

As for Physics, I don't see how it can exist on its own without the creator.

[ramunematt]

The Bible and Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity

A Bible verse discovered to verify Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity proves divine wisdom inspired the Bible. It also adds credence to how a 24 hour period in the presence of God would mean simultaneously passing through 1000 earth years.

2 Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Read entire article here:

http://www.christianlearninglounge.net/ ... ivity.html

You sure you want to say the Bible agrees with Einsteins theory? It's very problematic to the idea of a god with infinite power

http://jcnot4me.com/Items/evangelical_a ... n_emc2.htm

[dayage]

ramunematt,

Maybe the author of that page should pay attention to his own quotes:

First God is transcendent and omnipotent, this means that God is independent and above His creation. God is not subject to the limitations of the physical world He has made. God has infinite power and can make something exist by the force of His will.

That page disproves nothing. This person does not understand the concept of transcendent. God is not part of the universe and the universe is not part of God.

http://www.reasons.org/cosmic-design/bi ... t-it-first
http://www.reasons.org/MoreRigorousTest ... Relativity