Homosexuality and destroying faith

[Vice]

Well I'm waiting for you to point out the flaws in said paper then. Because saying "It's probably biased!" is not a valid argument.

14 year olds not ready? lol. You're kidding right? Besides the fact that their bodies are biologically ready for mating, only ones with a sheltered narrow minded up bringing are not ready. 14 year olds are fully capable of making decisions. Especially since that's 1 year before they are on the roads driving(With an adult but regardless they are driving.)

You think some one who is at the age where they are being trusted with a metal death trap, they can't decide if they want to have sexual intercourse? I know plenty of mature enough 14+ year olds who can and some who HAVE in fact handled said act. They were not scarred or confused.

This is a new age. Teenagers are smarter than before. They have access to the information, and you know, they just go out and do it. Considering I was 14 just 4 short years ago, I should know. Especially given the kind of person I was.

The fact is, Anyone who thinks 14 year olds can't make decisions based on sexual intercourse, they clearly have not studied a decent selection of 14 year olds. But hey, the legal age here is 16 so..

It's like this guy with this article. He twists things around. Even the studies he gets his information from, those who did the studies have even said he has twisted their work.

[zoegirl]

[quote=""]14 year olds are fully capable of making decisions.[/quotes]

I teach high school and there are very few 14 year olds who are ready for any hard decision making ability. Whether or not they have the potential to be able to do so is irrelevant when so many of them don't. And your laughable accusation that it's the narrow-minded ones who aren't ready when of all things its the girls who come from stable conservative families who know to keep up until marriage. It's the girls (and boys) who have been raised with the concept of easy hook-ups that are the ones who aren't ready.

And for the record, they are predominantly awful drivers who *shouldn't* be trusted with metal death traps, at least with other teens in the car. Ever read about the insurance rates for teens now? THose are based on hard facts about the rates of accidents from immature drivers. (And I get to see that too at the end of the school day when they act like idiots in the parking lot)

Shoot, even MTV gets this now with their 16 and pregnant show.

[Vice]

I can see I won't convince you since you have this pre conceived idea of 14 year olds anchored in religion. To each their own on this issue.

[zoegirl]

ummm...what?

[Gman]

1. It eliminates procreation.

So? Not everyone has to be gay and it reduces overpopulation and such.

Yeah so? That affirms my point.. Be thankful that your parents gave you life..

2. It promotes diseases (some deadly). See here.

You know...Gay people can have protected sex too and you can also get diseases in a straight sexual encounter.

Gay sex has a lot more diseases...

"An epidemiological study from Vancouver, Canada of data tabulated between 1987 and 1992 for AIDS-related deaths reveals that male homosexual or bisexual practitioners lost up to 20 years of life expectancy. The study concluded that if 3 percent of the population studied were gay or bisexual, the probability of a 20-year-old gay or bisexual man living to 65 years was only 32 percent, compared to 78 percent for men in general.94 The damaging effects of cigarette smoking pale in comparison -cigarette smokers lose on average about 13.5 years of life expectancy.95

The impact on length of life may be even greater than reported in the Canadian study. First, HIV/AIDS is underreported by as much as 15-20 percent, so it is likely that not all AIDSrelated deaths were accounted for in the study.96 Second, there are additional major causes of death related to gay sex. For example, suicide rates among a San Francisco cohort were 3.4 times higher than the general U.S. male population in 1987.97 Other potentially fatal ailments such as syphilis, anal cancer, and Hepatitis B and C also affect gay and bisexual men disproportionately.9"

Source: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... 75.html#17

3. Many forms of sexual behavior prevent blood from being accepted through the Red Cross and other agencies.

What?

Try giving blood sometime to the Red Cross.. They will ask if you have recently had gay sex before.. Why? To protect people from tainted blood...

4. It destroys traditional male/female family units. Children are separated from their biological parents.

That happens all the time in real life and it's fine.

It's ok to destroy family units or separate children from their biological parents? Where are the children's rights?

5. It could promote polygamy and other alternatives to one-man, one-woman unions. One being man-boy perverted unions. (NAMBLA)

So what you're saying is, being gay leads to pedophilia? No.

If gay marriage is allowed then why can't groups like NAMBLA be allowed their rights too?

6. Public schools in the nation will be required to teach that this perversion is the moral equivalent of traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

Gay marriage and polygamy is just as "moral" as traditional marriage. In fact, I'm prone to say 14 year olds are plenty old enough to decide if they want to be sexually active or not and or marry some one older.

Gay marriage is not moral.. Nor is it natural. The body was not made to do such things..

7. Courts will not be able to favor a traditional family involving one man and one woman over a homosexual couple in matters of adoption.

Who cares? If the homosexual parents are better suited to take care of the child why not?

We care.. Children are not being raised in traditional lifestyles where one man and one woman is present.. This is a perversion of the family unit..

8. Promotes psychiatric, mental and emotional disorders. See here.

The problem is this isn't factual. In fact psychiatic and emotional disorders stem from many things. It certainly isn't because a kid has two daddies.

The evidence reveals otherwise..

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... 75.html#14

9. Raises insurance costs for everyone.

:\ How?

The diseases created by this unnatural act will create higher premiums for others..

10. Children will be placed in homes with parents representing only one sex on an equal basis with those having a mom and a dad.

Source: http://www.nogaymarriage.com/tenarguments.asp

Okay? And?

Let me ask you this, Let's say the birth mother of a child dies. The father is the only one left. Let's say, his brother helps him raise the child.

Is this okay for two men to raise this child simply because they are not having sex?

Children need a mother and a father figure if they want the complete package. It also helps them communicate better in the world with both sexes later on in their life as well..

Listen.. I don't hate gays or lesbians at all.. In fact, some of the first Christians actually were gay, but changed their ways later on after they were converted.. 1 Corinthians 6:11

[Vice]

I see you're still using the source which was proven to be dishonest and misleading.

[Gman]

I see you're still using the source which was proven to be dishonest and misleading.

I'm sure that everyone who opposes your view is dishonest and misleading.. So what else is new?

[cslewislover]

Vice, studies done using scientific methods are not dishonest. A person can write a slanted article using them, of course. The slant can be mild or not so mild. Studies that reveal different results can be left out of the article, etc. But, there is no dispute over the fact that some sexual practices by homosexuals are bad for you. Even if someone uses a condom during anal sex, the fragile tissue there can still rip and let harmful things into the bloodstream. The condom can also break, and I imagine that with anal sex, condoms tear more often. It doesn't take a Ph.d. to know that an activity that causes pain and bleeding is not great for you, besides other things related to that activity . . . One thing I'd like to add, is that the guy you were putting down, Riggs, is a doctor. He does not hate gays at all, and at the beginning of his article he has a paragraph about how we should not persecute gays but to love them. In his view, he's trying to help people not get sick. So . . . you have a problem with that?

Your comments about 14 year olds are warped, in my opinion. How old are you?!?!?! Did you read my post??? They don't have life experience to make good decisions in this area. I'm not talking about SEX only. Geesh!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the heck?? Anyone physically mature enough can have sex. Wow. This amazes me. When people speak of maturity, they normally are referring to the head and heart, not just the flesh, like we're only animals. Even if you want to say that we're only animals, we obviously have feelings and emotions too. We just don't go around being intimate with anyone, and it's OK. I think if someone has become so cold-hearted that way, then they have sunk to the depths of simply being in the animal kingdom. In any case, an adult seeking relations with 14 years olds I think could pretty easily get on the wrong side of the law. And I guess the young girls forced into polygamous relations is ok with you? Wow. After all, they are in that situation, so it must be ok . . . I wonder how many young girls who enter prostitution realize they made a big mistake and wish they never did it. You sound like someone who just wants to justify a lot of free and easy sex, no matter how it may hurt people (females, primarily), in the short- or long-term.

[Proinsias]

Vice, studies done using scientific methods are not dishonest. A person can write a slanted article using them, of course. The slant can be mild or not so mild. Studies that reveal different results can be left out of the article, etc. But, there is no dispute over the fact that some sexual practices by homosexuals are bad for you. Even if someone uses a condom during anal sex, the fragile tissue there can still rip and let harmful things into the bloodstream. The condom can also break, and I imagine that with anal sex, condoms tear more often. It doesn't take a Ph.d. to know that an activity that causes pain and bleeding is not great for you, besides other things related to that activity . . . One thing I'd like to add, is that the guy you were putting down, Riggs, is a doctor. He does not hate gays at all, and at the beginning of his article he has a paragraph about how we should not persecute gays but to love them. In his view, he's trying to help people not get sick. So . . . you have a problem with that?

Leaving bum sex aside. There are many homosexual couples who have fufiling sexual relationships without penatrative sex. Women I know spring to mind.

Living causes pain and bleeding, therefore you should stop living?

It doesn't take a Ph.d to know you are in a commited realtionship. I would imagine the stats for gay couples will look worse in a society which views gay people as sinners.

[cslewislover]

Pronsias, we get tired of being put down for pointing out some things about gays, things the media tries to ignore. We try to counter some of the stuff that the more militant gays make out to be true. We don't hate gays here at all. I really like many gays. So please knock it off with the sarcasm (have I said anything like gay relationships should be illegal? No, but people should know what's going on from another perspective, not just one . . . it's very good to look at both sides). Stats are stats, and some of the studies or articles put forth are from San Francisco and gay publications.

[jlay]

Let's do a little experiment.

Vice, you gather up about 100 14 year old boys and girls who are active sexually.
Then let's meet with them one on one, and tell them that they are either pregnant or got someone pregant.
And then we can see who is "ready." How many of those 14 year olds do you think would say that they are, "ready?"

No one here will argue that a person is physically 'ready' to have sex at 14. Unlike many of my Christian friends, I really don't have a problem with teen sex. So long as they marry, enter the work force, pay taxes, and take responsibility as an adult. I think the teenager is a modern creation. Even many bible scholars believe that Mary was as young as 15 when she carried the Lord Jesus. The reality is that teens today, and even those into their younger 20s want to live as children, and have sex like adults. They want to live the irresponsible life of a teen, and yet engage in behaviors that should be reserved for committed adults.

The issue is really whether one is mentally ready. I would even say spiritually ready. Some of the greatest mental scars that adults carry with them later in life are sexual scars. You can't even imagine. I speak from experience. When I was a very young boy, I was taken advantage of by a 14 year old girl. When I was 18, like you, I thought a lot of things were OK as well. The reality is that sexual perversion is one of the biggest diseases our culture faces. Do you know how many people are victimized by sexual predetors? Do you know how many unwanted pregancies, and sexual diseases plaque our world? This is because of the same attitude towards sex that you share and one that pervades our culture.

Bottom line is the culture has shaped your world view. I'd say Twilight movies have more influence on your world view than does any 'Christian.' You've watched TVs, movies, read magazines, and listened to music that has engrained into you what to think. You are a minion to the pop culture. You wag your finger at Christians, yet you yourself are nothing more than a brainwashed victim, convinced that he is 'with it.'

And one day, like the rest of us already have, you will look back and say, 'maybe I wasn't so 'with it,' after all. Mark it down.

[sinnerbybirth]

As a christian, I'm taught to love the person, not the sin. You can be gay, and that is fine with me. Keep your sexuality at home in the bedroom or what ever room you like. One thing I don't like being thrown in my face is gay pride. Example would be the gay pride parades. I don't need to see a naked guy, or close to being naked getting spanked by someone else on a float. That IMO does more damage to there "cause" than good. To my knowledge there are no straight pride parades. And if there were, you wouldn't see me on a float spanking my wife. This is the type of sexually immoral behavior I don't want to see. I can also say the same for the superbowl half-time show. Justin Timberlake exposing Janet Jacksons boob on tv, in front of my seven year old son none the less.

Whats the purpose of a gay marriage anyway? If its because they want the same rights as a married straight couple? Hire an attorney and sue the government. Voting does no good. Look at the California Supreme Court trying to overthrow what the PEOPLE ALREADY VOTED ON!!!!

[Proinsias]

Pronsias, we get tired of being put down for pointing out some things about gays, things the media tries to ignore. We try to counter some of the stuff that the more militant gays make out to be true. We don't hate gays here at all. I really like many gays. So please knock it off with the sarcasm (have I said anything like gay relationships should be illegal? No, but people should know what's going on from another perspective, not just one . . . it's very good to look at both sides). Stats are stats, and some of the studies or articles put forth are from San Francisco and gay publications.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or make out that you hate gays. I've been here for a while and wouldn't dream of thinking that you hate gay people. I think the trouble for me is that you are potraying, or reporting, the downside pretty much exclusively.

It just seems that anal sex is in focus when it comes to discussing homosexual relationships and it is very much a part of many heterosexual relationships and not a part of many homosexual relationships.

If the traditional family unit is seen as the bedrock of society then those outwith that are going to have a tougher time, and worse stats.

[Kristoffer]

Where's the option of love? I see no problem with two men or to ladies loving each other. Where does Kristus say it is wrong in the new bible testament? He was a radical...right?

[kmr]

Homosexuality is a complicated issue, however, it can be approached much like others. Let me start here. The bible, and especially the gospels, makes it clear that sexual relations are a very unique form of bond. They join two people together to form "one flesh", it says, and represents symbolically the unity of the church to God. Jesus and the apostles also make it clear that sexual relations should be made for the purpose of raising children and families. My position on homosexuality is that any sex is meant for people to raise families, that is what God intended it for, and He condemns any sex that is not for that purpose. I do not think it is a sin to be homosexual, many people are made that way by others unintentionally, even Jesus said that. But to have a sexual relationship with somebody else, same sex or opposite, I believe that you should have the intention of staying with that person and raising a family. Yes, the Bible does condomn homosexuality. However, it also condomns adultery and the abuse of sex without the intent to raise a family. Believe what you want, but I find it very hard for somebody who has gay sex to bear children!

BY NO MEANS, though, should you EVER destroy anybody's faith! That is very much like killing them, which is a terrible thing to do, far worse than merely speaking ill of homosexuality could do any good. Nobody should be banned from church because of their sexual identity. However, everybody should know what the Bible says about sexual relations, both homosexual and heterosexual, as the neglectful ignorance of the meaning of sex is just as bad either way.