Did you "receive Jesus" the Jesus way, or man's way?

[A Y323]

Gabrielman's experiences are not from the Holy Spirit but from his natural concept of and who God is.

You don't have any right to say that. You are not God.

Just sayin'...

[B. W.]

There are a number of threads on this already. It says clearly in the bible that not all have all the gifts. Some have some gifts, some have others. Salvation belongs to those who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, and they will have love as He has love. Christ is not looking at our list of gifts as some kind-of entry into heaven requirement. It isn't up to a human to judge whether a person is saved or not, by looking at that person's gifts. This whole attitude goes against the principles that Christ taught, IMO. We are not to judge in that way.

Csle,
Accepting Christ as your Lord and Savoir is meaningless unless you follow through with what Jesus told us to do. Repentance, Baptism, receiving His Holy Spirit and then continuing in the Spirit of Christ.
Christ is the one who judges. Mark 16 v 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Christ's Love is manifested through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Csle, what type of “Love” are you talking about?

Fred.

Hi Fred,

Regarding Mark 16:16-17 have you not also noted what Mark 16:18 says "...they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." NKJV

Therefore, should you add to the requirement drinking poison and jumping in a vat of vipers in order to follow thru with what Jesus says too?

And brother Fred - please tone your rhetoric as you are beginning to stray away from the rules governing this forum.

One more point — Zeal without knowledge is not a good thing….

Question — what is a person to repent into?
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[FredFlanders]

There are a number of threads on this already. It says clearly in the bible that not all have all the gifts. Some have some gifts, some have others. Salvation belongs to those who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, and they will have love as He has love. Christ is not looking at our list of gifts as some kind-of entry into heaven requirement. It isn't up to a human to judge whether a person is saved or not, by looking at that person's gifts. This whole attitude goes against the principles that Christ taught, IMO. We are not to judge in that way.

Csle,
Accepting Christ as your Lord and Savoir is meaningless unless you follow through with what Jesus told us to do. Repentance, Baptism, receiving His Holy Spirit and then continuing in the Spirit of Christ.
Christ is the one who judges. Mark 16 v 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Christ's Love is manifested through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Csle, what type of “Love” are you talking about?

Fred.

Hi Fred,

Regarding Mark 16:16-17 have you not also noted what Mark 16:18 says "...they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." NKJV

Therefore, should you add to the requirement drinking poison and jumping in a vat of vipers in order to follow thru with what Jesus says too?

And brother Fred - please tone your rhetoric as you are beginning to stray away from the rules governing this forum.

One more point — Zeal without knowledge is not a good thing….

Question — what is a person to repent into?
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BW,

Both these quotes are parables and spiritually discerned.

“Taking up serpents” is the authority an anointed believer has over the Devil.

“If they drink any deadly poison and will by no means hurt them” is discernment an anointed believer has to know the difference between the words of Satan and the Word of God. If you have this discernment then you will not fall into the death traps of the devil.

If you are not looking through the eyes of the Holy Spirit you would not expect you to understand the meaning of Mark 16 v 16-17. The Holy Spirit in a believer is essential to discern scripture.

We repent on our transgression/sin against the Word of God and follow the Word of Christ.

Maybe you can clarify what my rhetoric is, so I know what you are talking about?

Fred.

[B. W.]

BW,

Both these quotes are parables and spiritually discerned.

“Taking up serpents” is the authority an anointed believer has over the Devil.

“If they drink any deadly poison and will by no means hurt them” is discernment an anointed believer has to know the difference between the words of Satan and the Word of God. If you have this discernment then you will not fall into the death traps of the devil.

If you are not looking through the eyes of the Holy Spirit you would not expect you to understand the meaning of Mark 16 v 16-17. The Holy Spirit in a believer is essential to discern scripture.

We repent on our transgression/sin against the Word of God and follow the Word of Christ.

Maybe you can clarify what my rhetoric is, so I know what you are talking about?

Fred.

Hi Fred,

When we write things on this forum or emails — no one can hear voice inflections, read body language, in order to gage communication effectively; therefore, we do not know if you are being informative, dictatorial, joking, kidding, being sanctimonious, opinionated, willing to discuss, or just want to tell others what to think. So, some of your comments can come across as mean spirited and dictatorial. That is what I mean by rhetoric.

What you stated here concerning looking through the eyes of the Holy Spirit to understand the meaning bible text as being essential to discern scripture, you would be wise to do so yourself.

Repentance by itself is mere self works. Repentance that the bible tells us to do leads us into something — become something.

If you do not grasp what I mean right now, then I'll leave that up the Lord to reveal to you. Until you begin to understand this, a lot of what you stated about various matters so far sounds more like dogmatism.

It is a good thing to be zealous for the Lord but without knowledge such zeal brings in dissension, jealousy, anger, wrath, all manner of malice work under a self deceived guise. Many people, who come here to this from, have been burned by such zeal as you seem to be showing, but again, we can't discern your intent accurately by reading alone right now.

Many people have been through church splits due to tongues issues, other have had their faith tried to the limits due to the modern American interpretation of the gospel promises when such failed to materialize in various ways. In many ways, people can come here, read, and learn and grow and find some manner of healing. Others come to dictate their way as the only way.

You may think we are naive and anti-spiritual gifts but rest assure, we are not either. As a matter of fact, I am writing this to you by the power of the Holy Spirit. There are many nuances to the gifts of the spirit. If someone does not speak in an unknown tongue does not mean they are not saved. How do I know this?

If this were truly true then that would prove beyond reasonable doubt that God indeed shows partiality — favors one group over another. Paul wrote the early Corinthian church and rebuked them for the same reason. What they were doing was showing partiality. How can that be of God? Or the fruit of the Spirit?

Only you can answer this, does your statements promote partiality — favoritism? God gives his gifts as he sees fit. Not all will speak in tongues, not all will have a word of knowledge, etc and etc, this demonstrates that God does not show favoritism but rather grace in giving the gifts as he wills — not us.

We turn the gifts into shows of favoritism - not grace shown from God. There is a difference. That is why you should seek the Lord on what his purpose is — what he wants to transform us into.

It is there that you can begin to look through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and gain understanding of bible text essential to discern scripture and unlock what the Lord wants his people to become. That is why I am not directly telling you what it is — seek and you will find.

Have a blest day!

If you are interested in who is writing you please feel free to look up my website:

http://www.AfterHoursMinistries.com
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[FredFlanders]

BW,

Both these quotes are parables and spiritually discerned.

“Taking up serpents” is the authority an anointed believer has over the Devil.

“If they drink any deadly poison and will by no means hurt them” is discernment an anointed believer has to know the difference between the words of Satan and the Word of God. If you have this discernment then you will not fall into the death traps of the devil.

If you are not looking through the eyes of the Holy Spirit you would not expect you to understand the meaning of Mark 16 v 16-17. The Holy Spirit in a believer is essential to discern scripture.

We repent on our transgression/sin against the Word of God and follow the Word of Christ.

Maybe you can clarify what my rhetoric is, so I know what you are talking about?

Fred.

Hi Fred,

When we write things on this forum or emails — no one can hear voice inflections, read body language, in order to gage communication effectively; therefore, we do not know if you are being informative, dictatorial, joking, kidding, being sanctimonious, opinionated, willing to discuss, or just want to tell others what to think. So, some of your comments can come across as mean spirited and dictatorial. That is what I mean by rhetoric.

What you stated here concerning looking through the eyes of the Holy Spirit to understand the meaning bible text as being essential to discern scripture, you would be wise to do so yourself.

Repentance by itself is mere self works. Repentance that the bible tells us to do leads us into something — become something.

If you do not grasp what I mean right now, then I'll leave that up the Lord to reveal to you. Until you begin to understand this, a lot of what you stated about various matters so far sounds more like dogmatism.

It is a good thing to be zealous for the Lord but without knowledge such zeal brings in dissension, jealousy, anger, wrath, all manner of malice work under a self deceived guise. Many people, who come here to this from, have been burned by such zeal as you seem to be showing, but again, we can't discern your intent accurately by reading alone right now.

Many people have been through church splits due to tongues issues, other have had their faith tried to the limits due to the modern American interpretation of the gospel promises when such failed to materialize in various ways. In many ways, people can come here, read, and learn and grow and find some manner of healing. Others come to dictate their way as the only way.

You may think we are naive and anti-spiritual gifts but rest assure, we are not either. As a matter of fact, I am writing this to you by the power of the Holy Spirit. There are many nuances to the gifts of the spirit. If someone does not speak in an unknown tongue does not mean they are not saved. How do I know this?

If this were truly true then that would prove beyond reasonable doubt that God indeed shows partiality — favors one group over another. Paul wrote the early Corinthian church and rebuked them for the same reason. What they were doing was showing partiality. How can that be of God? Or the fruit of the Spirit?

Only you can answer this, does your statements promote partiality — favoritism? God gives his gifts as he sees fit. Not all will speak in tongues, not all will have a word of knowledge, etc and etc, this demonstrates that God does not show favoritism but rather grace in giving the gifts as he wills — not us.

We turn the gifts into shows of favoritism - not grace shown from God. There is a difference. That is why you should seek the Lord on what his purpose is — what he wants to transform us into.

It is there that you can begin to look through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and gain understanding of bible text essential to discern scripture and unlock what the Lord wants his people to become. That is why I am not directly telling you what it is — seek and you will find.

Have a blest day!

If you are interested in who is writing you please feel free to look up my website:

http://www.AfterHoursMinistries.com
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BW,
I have never talked on who is saved and who is not saved. But I will tell you this ALL believers can speak in tongues. All believers can operate any of the gifts at any time as they call upon the Holy Spirit. Many don't use all the gifts because of their lack of knowledge on how the gift operate or they just don't believe.

BW if you were looking through the Spirit of God you would have known who the serpent was and what the deadly poison is and would have not questioned me on this.

We have ALL been given the same Holy Spirit as Christ when we recieve the Holy Spirit to do the same works as Christ. Those that use the gifts by faith become more experienced and can teach others.

When Jesus said in Mark 16 v 16-20 that these signs "follow" them that believe, the word "follow" meant to "accompany one where ever they go".

But then maybe you could jump into a pit of vipers or drink some poison to prove otherwise or you could explain to me what you believe Mark 16 v 16-17. means.

Fred.

[B. W.]

I have never talked on who is saved and who is not saved. But I will tell you this ALL believers can speak in tongues. All believers can operate any of the gifts at any time as they call upon the Holy Spirit. Many don't use all the gifts because of their lack of knowledge on how the gift operate or they just don't believe.

BW if you were looking through the Spirit of God you would have known who the serpent was and what the deadly poison is and would have not questioned me on this.

We have ALL been given the same Holy Spirit as Christ when we recieve the Holy Spirit to do the same works as Christ. Those that use the gifts by faith become more experienced and can teach others.

When Jesus said in Mark 16 v 16-20 that these signs "follow" them that believe, the word "follow" meant to "accompany one where ever they go".

But then maybe you could jump into a pit of vipers or drink some poison to prove otherwise or you could explain to me what you believe Mark 16 v 16-17. means.

Fred.

Thank you for clarifying. You did come across that way to several people reading and responding to the subject. I assume you are in jest concerning the last part.

RE:

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." NKJV

Notice what Mark 16:16 says and doesn't say. It says, He who believes (Faithing) and baptized will be saved.

Notice that the text says next - he who does not believe will be condemned. It does not say he who does not believe and not baptized is condemned.

The emphasis is upon believing in Christ as the only agency used for salvation. If not, the word baptism would have been added in the next part. This in fact clarifies the indented use in the first part — believing is what causes a person to become saved and baptism (placement into) comes alongside or follows after one first believes.

There are many types of baptism — into fire, etc, Holy Spirit, etc, into name (character) of another. Not every time and on all occasions is the word baptism limited to and confined only to water baptism in meaning either.

Have you considered that?
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[Gabrielman]

Gabrielman's experiences are not from the Holy Spirit but from his natural concept of and who God is. Not that I want to condemn Gabrielman in any way but to lead him into the Kingdom of God and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

You are incorrect. God's Holy Spirit is in me, and has worked though me, and I have full salvation in the Lord, yet I have not spoken in tongues. Could I? Yes. All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are open to me as they are to all who are saved. I have had witnesses to God's Holy Spirit being in me. If my friend was back online (he is a member on this board) he could also testify to this. All in all, God has put it in my heart that I am saved and that His Holy Spirit is in me. He speaks to me in many ways, and He guides me daily in my life. Why would you believe other wise?

Gabrielman's experiences are not from the Holy Spirit but from his natural concept of and who God is.

How could you possibly be sure of this? I never told them to you...
Now if you will excuse me, I am tired and need rest...

[amyweaver29]

Not all who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit speak in tongues outrightly. Some takes time to manifest. Some are outrightly received. In whatever circumstance, we will have such gift in due time.

I didn't receive mine outrightly. It took awhile - at a time when I have learned vocal praising - that was the time I had mine. But, it has also to be nurtured. Otherwise, it will also be taken.

So, use your gifts once you have them to evangelize and let people come to know and experience God.

Regards and God bless,
Amy
Kaffeevollautomat

[FredFlanders]

Gabrielman's experiences are not from the Holy Spirit but from his natural concept of and who God is. Not that I want to condemn Gabrielman in any way but to lead him into the Kingdom of God and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

You are incorrect. God's Holy Spirit is in me, and has worked though me, and I have full salvation in the Lord, yet I have not spoken in tongues. Could I? Yes. All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are open to me as they are to all who are saved. I have had witnesses to God's Holy Spirit being in me. If my friend was back online (he is a member on this board) he could also testify to this. All in all, God has put it in my heart that I am saved and that His Holy Spirit is in me. He speaks to me in many ways, and He guides me daily in my life. Why would you believe other wise?

Gabrielman's experiences are not from the Holy Spirit but from his natural concept of and who God is.

How could you possibly be sure of this? I never told them to you...
Now if you will excuse me, I am tired and need rest...

Gab,
Because you believe in Christ does not mean you have the Holy Spirit. There is more God has to give you must you must ask and seek for it.

There are many examples in scripture that will show you people who believe in Christ and God that do not have the Holy Spirit.




Receiving the Holy Spirit is a separate event to repentance and baptism. Acts 8 is a perfect example of how people were believed in Jesus, were baptised, had joy in Christ, were healed in the name of Jesus and had demons cast out of the yet had not reived the Holy Spirt until Peter and John prayed with them to receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8 v 5Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

6And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

7For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

8And there was great joy in that city.

9But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Fred.

[FredFlanders]

I have never talked on who is saved and who is not saved. But I will tell you this ALL believers can speak in tongues. All believers can operate any of the gifts at any time as they call upon the Holy Spirit. Many don't use all the gifts because of their lack of knowledge on how the gift operate or they just don't believe.

BW if you were looking through the Spirit of God you would have known who the serpent was and what the deadly poison is and would have not questioned me on this.

We have ALL been given the same Holy Spirit as Christ when we recieve the Holy Spirit to do the same works as Christ. Those that use the gifts by faith become more experienced and can teach others.

When Jesus said in Mark 16 v 16-20 that these signs "follow" them that believe, the word "follow" meant to "accompany one where ever they go".

But then maybe you could jump into a pit of vipers or drink some poison to prove otherwise or you could explain to me what you believe Mark 16 v 16-17. means.

Fred.

Thank you for clarifying. You did come across that way to several people reading and responding to the subject. I assume you are in jest concerning the last part.

RE:

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." NKJV

Notice what Mark 16:16 says and doesn't say. It says, He who believes (Faithing) and baptized will be saved.

Notice that the text says next - he who does not believe will be condemned. It does not say he who does not believe and not baptized is condemned.

The emphasis is upon believing in Christ as the only agency used for salvation. If not, the word baptism would have been added in the next part. This in fact clarifies the indented use in the first part — believing is what causes a person to become saved and baptism (placement into) comes alongside or follows after one first believes.

There are many types of baptism — into fire, etc, Holy Spirit, etc, into name (character) of another. Not every time and on all occasions is the word baptism limited to and confined only to water baptism in meaning either.

Have you considered that?
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BW,
Yes I am glad you could see the jest.
Yes we can be baptised in water and Holy Spirit/fire/ghost etc
Believing/repentance, baptism, receiving the Holy Spirit, and then continuing to grow in Christ are all separate events. And are ALL necessary to stay in the Kingdom of God.
Fred.

[FredFlanders]

Not all who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit speak in tongues outrightly. Some takes time to manifest. Some are outrightly received. In whatever circumstance, we will have such gift in due time.

I didn't receive mine outrightly. It took awhile - at a time when I have learned vocal praising - that was the time I had mine. But, it has also to be nurtured. Otherwise, it will also be taken.

So, use your gifts once you have them to evangelize and let people come to know and experience God.

Regards and God bless,
Amy
Kaffeevollautomat

Amy,
As you know many denominations water down the Gospel where there is no repentance, no baptism, no receiving of the Holy Spirit, no study of scripture. Lets make sure Gab seeks the fullness of Christ and does not stop where he is at the moment.
Fred.

[Gabrielman]

Gab,
Because you believe in Christ does not mean you have the Holy Spirit. There is more God has to give you must you must ask and seek for it.

There are many examples in scripture that will show you people who believe in Christ and God that do not have the Holy Spirit.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is a separate event to repentance and baptism. Acts 8 is a perfect example of how people were believed in Jesus, were baptised, had joy in Christ, were healed in the name of Jesus and had demons cast out of the yet had not reived the Holy Spirt until Peter and John prayed with them to receive the Holy Spirit.

Okay it is obvious to me that you want to just sit here and dictate my faith for me, nice try. Look, I don't know how much clearer I can make this, in fact I don't think it is possible to make it any more clearer than I already have. God's Holy Spirit is in me! I have prophesied, interpreted visions, and had visions, and His Holy Spirit has moved in me and moves in me every day. I read His word almost daily (yes almost, on some days I do not have the time to do so, however I do try to make time for it), and when I do He leads me in what to read, and when I read I get a unique message from Him, and it is always relevant. I pray to Him daily and He comforts my soul. I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in me, and you sir have no authority to say otherwise.

As you know many denominations water down the Gospel where there is no repentance, no baptism, no receiving of the Holy Spirit, no study of scripture. Lets make sure Gab seeks the fullness of Christ and does not stop where he is at the moment.

Excuse me? I seek the fullness of Christ and seek His Kingdom first and always, and I will not be satisfied until I am in Heaven with Him. I study scripture, I have forgiveness of my sins, and not being perfect, when I do sin I do feel sorry and repent for what I have done. Why do I? Because of the conviction of the Holy Spirit.


Look if you don't want to believe the Holy Spirit is in me, then don't. You are wrong, God has shown me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I do. You do not know me, you do not know what has gone on in my life, and you certainly don't know my spiritual experiences from the Holy Spirit. If you did, you would know the truth. I am not a new believer to the faith, and I am not a man with weak faith, I have an unshakable faith that has been built up by God over the years.

[cslewislover]

Fred, you are judging in the place of God, and not acknowledging what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians. In 12:7-10, Paul writes, "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good [he doesn't say "private" good here]. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues." One person is given this, one is given that, all determined by the Holy Spirit. It goes on to say that the body has many parts. He's asking them, and now you, to accept that different faithful believers - all part of Christ's body - have different functions and we will not all have the same gifts. It's amazing to me that Paul has to say the same things over and over (lol). He then asks if all are prophets, etc. He means no, they're not. He just explained that, and then he says "but," referring to not everyone being prophets etc., "eagerly desire the greater gifts." He wouldn't need to say that if everyone had the same gifts.

You told BW that you never said that believers don't need to speak in tongues to show their saved, but then you say that ALL Christians speak in tongues. Great double speak!! You're saying all believers need to speak in tongues, so that means you need to speak in tongues to demonstrate salvation. This is not biblical. And don't think that I don't believe in tongues as a gift for today. I am one of the smaller number Christians who believe the examples I have heard of tongues that have happened today, as happened in biblical times. But the examples of this happening are few and far between. They were for the salvation or edification of someone. I also tend to believe the studies done by linguists relating to groups of people who speak in tongues - that they are very simple and can't be considered languages. The examples I have heard of, that have worked in people's lives, are where someone speaks in a (real) foreign language that they do not know, and someone near them was helped by God through it. THAT is from Holy Spirit.

When a person comes to believe in Christ, the Holy Spirit enters them. This does not at all mean that they will speak in tongues then, or even ever. I am moving this thread to one of the tongues threads that already exist, since many people participated in it and there is a plethora of information there. There's no point in repeating everything. I know what you had posted involved more than one topic, but your OP ended with this subject, so that seemed to be your point.

[sinnerbybirth]

I know this is a little late in the post but, isnt Mark 16: 9-20 missing from the oldest and more reliable manuscripts?
I know this is off track of the current debate but, since it was brought up I was wondering is someone could shed some light on these verses credibility.

Thanks You and GOD Bless

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I know this is a little late in the post but, isnt <a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/esv/Mark ... 9-20">Mark 16: 9-20</a> missing from the oldest and more reliable manuscripts?
I know this is off track of the current debate but, since it was brought up I was wondering is someone could shed some light on these verses credibility.

Thanks You and GOD Bless

«The manuscript tradition and style of [Mark 16:9-20] suggest that these verses were probably an early addition to the Gospel of Mark, although afew scholars (such as William Farmer) have argued the case that they are Markan. In any case, most of the content of these verses is found elsewhere in the Gospels.»

That quote is from the IVP Bible Background Commentary - New Testament, by Craig S. Keener.

In any case, remember that the Bible as it has come down to us is God's word, not Mark's. That's good enough for me.

FL