hello

[Anonymous]

Hello,
new here...but been around.

I don't think there is a "God"
2000 + years and still waiting, the Pope died and did not show any sign or bolt of lightning to justify his existance.

I have tempted the bible by ripping out the revelation and flushing it down a toilet. I have smashed a church to make some noise and see if i get my knukles caned for doing so. Nothing happened of significance. Just anotber walk in the park it seemed.

I don't kill so don't kill me but waiting to move on from this messed up existance we all share.

The best I can conclude to justify this existance is to stay as close to base as possible, being what we have here today and think about if all these types that push beliefs fanaticaly just went away, then perhaps this planet is a stepping stone to use our intelect and move on to. In other words, had we not had wars and things that stall the ability, we may have been 2000 years advanced from where we are at now.

Welcome !

[Felgar]

Well, welcome Hitch. You;ve certainly made your views clear, and that is fine. Feel free to look over the things we've been saying, and ask sincere questions when you would like to.

Please be aware however, that the primary purpose of this site is for Christians to discuss issues with and encourage fellow believers. This is not a Christian vs. Atheist debate board like you may have found elsewhere on the net. As such - though we're always happy to respond to sincere questions from someone seeking to learn about Christianity - outright attacks on Christianity will not be tolerated. For a more detailed explanation of the board and its objectives, I refer you to the Board Purpose which is also found at the top of the page just under the banner.

Thanks Hitch, and welcome to our home!

[Anonymous]

I was brought up a christian by tradition and was talked about much in our home. I won't knock the concept of the belief,but I will say this, I don't buy the horns, the wings, and all these interpretations pased on thru the ages from another languages spoken many years ago. Things become distorted and I wonder why leaders of churches drive in BMW's and the media lately is rife of so called church leaders and their messin with our offsprings.

Sorry, I do not trust the people that run Christianity these days, but it does not mean to say I do not trust the faith. Only the way it is preached and interpreted would be my arguements and debates on a intelectual and scientific level in laymans terms we all can understand.

To answer your assumption that I have been to other forums and discussed these issues...no, I have not done so, I live by instinct these days and surfed here somehow, so here I am.
Mysterious perhaps, and PLEASE, PLEASE don't answer that one with the boring old cliche that he works in mysterious ways, heard it all before.

But what I have said in my intro is well and truly true, I have tested things in my own and bazarr way, and still, no sign or proof of any existance.
It was a misintepreted scientific test on 2 fronts.
1. Personal
2. Personal with creator if there is one.

[Felgar]

Sorry, I do not trust the people that run Christianity these days, but it does not mean to say I do not trust the faith. Only the way it is preached and interpreted would be my arguements ...

That is a fair point - religion can certainly be corrupted. What we turn to then, is the Bible. If you can't trust that, then you're left with nothing to turn to.

[LittleShepherd]

Preachers and BMWs -- Nothing wrong with that, as long as they're earning the money for it honestly and not squandering church funds. Churches are to provide for their pastor's basic needs, but that's all. Anything above that, and the normal things that come from belonging to a church family(love, community, support), and they're on their own just like everyone else.

Church leaders and molestation charges -- Remember first that the scandal is within the Roman Catholic Church. ie Mystery Babylon (I direct you to Revelations chapters 17 and 18 ). Not the church established by Christ. Such instances outside of the RCC are extremely rare, and Christian churches tend to actually deal with the problem rather than cover it up until it explodes and causes scandal.

Sorry, I do not trust the people that run Christianity these days.

As well you shouldn't...not until they've proven themselves, and you've evaluated them based on Biblical criteria. The criteria can be found in I Timothy chapter 3, if you're curious. We're to be loving and caring and all that, but we're also to be cautious and discerning. Particularly in areas of such importance. Trust must always be earned, and Christians are also supposed to hold each other accountable for their actions, and this includes church leaders.

Oh, and God works in mysterious ways.

[Anonymous]

Hello Hitch. I am new here, too. You and I share the same views on alot of what you said. The main difference is that God revealed himself to me when I needed him most. I was raised in a Christian family and was never 100% if He really existed or not. Every time I questioned whether He was real or not in what ever way I felt was appropriate, all signs pointed to no. But when I absolutely needed him the most, when I was 23 years old, I called out to Him and He answered. That was 6 years ago and ever since then, He has showed me that He is very real and I can't imagine where I would be without Him. If I had gone by the actions of other Christians that I've known over the years, I never would have kept searching. Now I see that I am no different from any other Christian. We all struggle with sin in different areas. None of us are better or worse than each other. Some of our sins are just a little more out in the open and that makes it easier for others to judge us. OK, I'll stop babbling now.

[Prodigal Son]

welcome, hitch.

[Anonymous]

OK, but has the "wait for his return" been a bit too long in the tooth, like 2000 plus years ?
Not counting the years added since" Eve ate the apple".
The logic makes no sense. What IS the apple meant to represent ?
Knowledge ?
yeah ok, knowledge. And ??
Is the interpretation correct ? Did they have written scriptures in the garden of eden to say this happened ?

If it came from some saints dream from god, then what about my dream? can't I say, she only ate a apple that she stole, therefore was evivted from utopia eden ?
see my point ? wheres the conection ? Is this all an idealogy to justify the unknown, death and what happens to us after ?

[Mastermind]

I think Jesus won't return for quite a while. As in, a few million years while, so I fail to see the problem. And there is a difference between a prophet's dreams and your dreams. A prophet wasn't taken seriously unless some of his prophecies turned out to be true. I highly doubt you'd pass the test.

[LittleShepherd]

2000 years isn't very long. It's only like 2 God-days. A day with God is as a thousand years and all that. When compared to eternity, it's practically nothing.

I believe the evidence from science that places the Flood at approx. 30,000 BC makes the time of Adam and Eve somewhere around the 36,000 - 40,000 BC mark.

The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil(never called an apple in the Bible) doesn't represent anything. It's just a fruit, and Eve ate it and disobeyed God's command. The story of the fall of mankind doesn't have much symbolism -- it's all pretty literal stuff.

Some of the events of the garden, the Flood, etc. may have made it to the time of Abraham, and later Moses, through oral tradition. However, the Bible wasn't written from these traditions -- rather it was penned by prophets who got to see this stuff directly in visions from God. Moses, the writer of the first 5 books of the Bible, had great authority, what with food coming from the sky and the parting of the Red Sea and the pillars of cloud and fire that guided their travels and the clothes that never went ragged even after over 40 years in the desert and all that. I mean...believing that the books He wrote were inspired by God wouldn't be a stretch after all that. Similar stories with most of the other prophets, particularly Elijah.

[Mastermind]

I'd say the fruit represents temptation.

[Once4all]

Hello,
new here...but been around.

Hello, Hitch. I'm fairly new here, too. I'm a Christian, but was an unbeliever for the first 43 years of my life.

I don't think there is a "God"
2000 + years and still waiting, the Pope died and did not show any sign or bolt of lightning to justify his existance.

The Pope was just a man, just another Christian. Unless you expect God to show some visible sign at the death of every Christian, there's no reason to expect the Pope's death to have exhibited any special response from God.

I have tempted the bible by ripping out the revelation and flushing it down a toilet. I have smashed a church to make some noise and see if i get my knukles caned for doing so. Nothing happened of significance. Just anotber walk in the park it seemed.

The Bible that you tore apart is only ink and paper, a material thing. Why would you expect a reaction from God? Ripping His word out of your heart is another matter. Smashed a church? What you are describing as a church is merely a building, another material thing. A building has no meaning to God. Believers, Christians ARE the church. Four walls and a roof are merely where the church meets.

Welcome.

In Him,
Once4all

[Once4all]

2000 years isn't very long. It's only like 2 God-days. A day with God is as a thousand years and all that. When compared to eternity, it's practically nothing.

Hi LS. Sadly, the old earth creationists take those verses that seem to equate a thousand years to equal a day totally out of context. Let's look at them. I'll include surrounding verses to provide at least some context.

Psa 90:3 You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men."
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.
Psa 90:5 You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Psalm 90:4 is comparing the passing of time by an eternal being with the passing of time by a being with a 100-yr life span. It is not stating, addressing, or even hinting at any kind of mathematical equivalency. To an eternal God who had no beginning and knows no end, a day in the lives of us limited humans is like a thousand years. That's all. It's not a math lesson.

2Pe 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:8 is graphically depicting the patience of God and is not teaching heavenly math. Again, it is speaking of the eternality of God vs. the brief time of man. What seems like a long time to us is but a brief time to God.

Man thinks "Two thousand years and still counting. Why is God being so slow with his promise?" But to God who is eternal, 2000 years is not a long time, but is to Him like what in our lives is only 2 days.

In Him,
Once4all

[Felgar]

If it came from some saints dream from god, then what about my dream? can't I say, she only ate a apple that she stole, therefore was evivted from utopia eden ?
see my point ? wheres the conection ? Is this all an idealogy to justify the unknown, death and what happens to us after ?

Those are some fair questions... MM had a good point that you've got to be shown to be correct to be a prophet. But beyond that, there's a larger picture to consider. Consider that the Bible was written by many people over a very long period of time, yet it remains consistent. Right there is a good reason to at least investigate carefully what it says. Were it only from a single person then that would actually reduce its credibility, from my point of view. The fact that so many have contributed to a volume of work so remarkable is, in itself, a very powerful message.

And all this is not only to justify what happens in death, but also to enable a better way of life here on Earth. Every Christian will tell you, that trusting in God is honestly a better way to live.

[LittleShepherd]

*snip*

Yeah, that's basically what I was saying. I'm an Old-Earth Creationist...and it seems that taking the 1000 years to 1 day thing literally would be of more benefit to young earth creationists.