Why should I change myself from an Atheist to a Christian?

[Gabrielman]

sinnerbybirth, I know of that book, my father owns it and says it's a good read. I'll try to read it in the next few weeks

Hey DocSir,

I may be wrong on this but, you seem to be searching for some answers. I see you to be struggling with a few issues about the existence of GOD. The best anology I can use is this: Do you have a brain? I would bet your answer is yes. Have you ever seen your brain? I would bet your answer would be no. Then how do you know you have a brain? The same is true of GOD. Just because I haven't seen him doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

You owe it to yourself to atleast weigh the evidence and make a fair call on his existence. This is one of the reasons I told you about Lee's book. He came from the same view as yourself. Lee did the digging to see if there really is a GOD or not. He interviews people in his book that have more letters behind their name than I can imagine. All the people he interviews have spent almost an entire lifetime searching and digging for answers themselves. Do some background checking on the poeple he interviews. This book helped me to see that there really is factual evidence, not opinions for the existence of GOD.

GOD does exist. He also loves you. I believe that is why you are here and asking questions.

DocSir, I will pray GOD will help you to see clearly in your search for the truth about him.

GOD Bless you.

What you said here is very good. We should all pray for everyone here, yes. I just get a little upset at times when people come on here and make such statements that they will never believe in God. Though I did not say what I did out of anger, I did say it in not such a nice way. It just gets tiresome when some one wants all the proof in the world that God exists, but they do not need proof to show that He doesn't. We shouldn't be trying to prove God to anybody, the Bible says to live by faith. So when someone just doesn't want to believe no matter what, well it gets to the point where you wonder how beneficial it would be for them to have "proof" of God. That is what they seek, well many of them anyway. Some even go so far as to say that they want God to show Himself to them and then they will believe, but what good would that be? If you knew by God showing Himself to you, would that be more beneficial than having faith in Him? Would you still hunger to grow in your relationship with Him and seek Him with all of your heart?

It is just stressful when people come on and they post things like this. It does hurt those who are sincere seekers, especially when they encounter something like evolution and don't look more into it, or are more convinced by the other side that there is no need for a God. When people come on and post such things and we do not take the time to counter their arguments then we may make it look like we don't have an answer, and that may be all it takes for those who are unsure.

However, there is a fine line for us to walk, while we should be loving and pray for others that don't have a relationship with God, we must also be firm at times too and not let things slide. The Bible states that if you spare the rod, you spoil the child. Doc Sir, if you make statements like:

Patricia, Please do yourself a favor and rip out the entire book of John.

and

I do not, and never will believe in a supreme intelligence that is the creator of all things because it simply sounds ridiculous to me.

you could get banned. Please watch what you say when you are here. We are not here to hurt each other, but we will lay down the law if need be (well the mods will anyway ). Statements like your second one there violate the Board Purpose.

SinnerByBirth, that's very nice of you. We need to remember to pray for all who come here, and for each other, too.

In summary, what I believe to this day is that there is a sort of god, but only in the way that we use the term.

I am confused here, wasn't the topic title "Why should I change myself from an Atheist to a Christian"? Then are you not a theist of sorts, rather than an atheist?

I do not, and never will believe in a supreme intelligence that is the creator of all things because it simply sounds ridiculous to me.

Why does it sound ridiculous to you? Can you give me some reasons? List some things you see as "ridiculous" and I am sure we can give you some links to threads and articles on the main site that would address these things. Then if you still want to talk about them you can do so on the proper threads.

it's just not my cup of tea to (to my knowledge) lie to myself just so I can live a happy little life.

But are you sure you are not lying to yourself already? Pascals wager, have you ever heard of it? Not that it's the best thing out there, but all in all, I would rather live my life as though there were a God and die to find out there is not one, rather than the alternative...

What makes christianity the religion that is 'correct'? Why is polytheism wrong? Why did you choose to believe in just one god instead of the many gods of the Aztecs or Greeks?

All Religions Lead to God? Can One Discern the True Religion?
Authenticity of the Bible
Try reading the article and looking at the ones in the second link, maybe that will help you understand why Christianity is correct.

[Kristoffer]

Sorry gabrialman but pascals wager is not very convincincing, you yourself said "its not the best thing", now how do you know your god is the right one and not the other hundreds of gods? How do you know that your particular brand of Kristus worship is right one? What if god rewards people for using critical thinking? All kinds of problems right?

I think Docsir, you should give Religion's a Chance, I personally am an Agnostic Athiest(something these guys think is not real) if you don't enquire you are leaving yourself to be ignorant of these things...you never know in a few years time you could believe in a god and not regret it. Anyway let me just say that Evolution, the big bang...All of that sciency stuff doesn't stop God one jot, of course if they found a mere bacteria on another planet and it was proven real then maybe some people's faith would be shaken. Anyway the point: Why? Because. Or at least be open minded and try to understand it, i have lots to learn about it still and its better to know about it than to not.

Adjö

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Pascal's Wager, if read in its entirety, is a model of reason and intelligence. You can find it in Section III of Pascal's Pensées and it is about 12 pages long. Will the Wager convince an atheist? No, nor will it convince an agnostic because your mind is unable and unwilling to understand.

What if god rewards people for using critical thinking?

God does! Now, go and find Pascal's Wager in your own language and read it. Do not only speak of critical thinking, find out what critical thinking really is.

FL

[cslewislover]

I knew such examples of more "detailed" versions of atheists and agnostics exist, that people have made up superfluous definitions, but it just goes to show that people like to categorize things to death. Some like to come up with more detailed definitions and categories of things because they get some fame out of it, and others like to be included in smaller groups to seem like they're more special or different than someone in a bigger group. I can think of more reasons, too. Kristoffer, you're an agnostic. Someone who doesn't have proof of God but is open to the possibility. Lol. In one of your posts, in response to me (I think), you wrote that you are atheist, now you insist that you're agnostic atheist (without ever providing any definitions or site links).

The following web page gives some information on what you say you are, and it sounds to me that it makes people who call themselves this just kind-of silly. It's also very wishy-washy, as in: "The knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of deities is unimportant; The claim to knowledge of existence or nonexistence of deities is best avoided." So why bother labeling yourself about it then, and why bother talking about it? If the claim to this knowledge is to be avoided, then why are you here? Philosophy: All About; Agnostic Atheist

[sinnerbybirth]

Thanks CS and Gab.

Lord knows we all could use a little prayer from and to each other.

GOD Bless

[jlay]

and you were teaching 2+2=4 it is generally the same as teaching a child faith.

How so?

Perception is everything, if we perceive truthful statements as false, and society judges them as such, it becomes a falsity.

Do you really believe that if we perceive 2+2=5 that it will make it so? Just because a person or persons think they are right, does not make it so. If that's the case, then we are both right, and we are both wrong.

If you are going to feel faith, then you need to know why, and what it is you are placing your faith in.

My post to you was sincere, and reasonable. Your response was antagonistic at best. It's rather silly to call someone Hitler, say they talk in cirles, and various other insults, and then say, "no malicious intent." I guess I could walk up, punch someone in the face, and then say, "no malicious intent." If you'd like to specifically break down your accusations of talking in circles, have at it. I've never been compared to Hitler. Bravo.

Something all knowing and supreme, it's just not my cup of tea to (to my knowledge) lie to myself just so I can live a happy little life.

Let's just assume for a moment that the God of the bible is real. Let's also assume that we could provide you with ample evidence to confirm. Would this god suddenly be 'your cup of tea?' Aren't you in fact saying that for you to accept the existence of the biblical God, He has to meet your personal criteria?

Everything man kind has ever wanted or can conceive is possible with faith

How so? I don't understand at all what you are saying here. How are you defining faith?

Maliciously twisting words when you perfectly well know their meaning is a sign of duplicity and blindness.

Please give examples so I can provide an appropiate response.

It's people like you that make me fear religion.

Excellent. Because I am anti-religion. Religion is the opiate of the masses. I am not here to promote religion at all.

[DannyM]

Excellent. Because I am anti-religion. Religion is the opiate of the masses. I am not here to promote religion at all.

Jlay,

Why are you anti-religion?

Danny

[Gman]

Excellent. Because I am anti-religion. Religion is the opiate of the masses. I am not here to promote religion at all.

Jlay,

Why are you anti-religion?

Danny

I think because religion is actually something man creates..

[B. W.]

I don't see how this will make anything but an aesthetic difference in my life. I've often just said I was christian just so people wouldn't hassle me about it. I truly don't believe in god, and I don't see why I should. Convince me?

God seeks to persuade through use of intellectual honesty of reason. He does not seek to silence it, as that would make him unjust. The Lord seeks to reason with a person in order to persuade them to simply trust in who and what he is. Isaiah 1:18

Atheist on the other hand in reality do not permit intellectual honesty but seek to stifle it. Many persuade by use of force, which negates justice of being truly just.

Christian do not fly planes into buildings, or seek to enact Shaira Law. Worldly religion always seeks to stifle intellectual honesty of reason and use force as the meas to persuade. Human beings seek to enslave, dominate, and hijack religions to justify use of forceful persuasion.

The reality of Christianity is not in a forced set of do's and don'ts but rather we seek to persuade through use of reason — not force.

Act 26:28-29, "And Agrippa said to Paul, "In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?" And Paul said, "Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am…" NKJV

This should demonstrate something to you. God is reasonable, he reasonably exist, evidence is found in your ability to reason. The question — is do you want to continue to live in a world system that persuades by force (Must live hedonistically to be accepted as cool; or submit to Shaira law; or force everyone to abandoned God — in exchange for what?

Which side demonstrates the most unreasonableness? Stifles intellectual honesty?

No one can force you to become a Christian. True liberty is found in Christ — when through reason you become fully persuaded by the grace of God, the justice of God, the love of God, the perfect ways of God, and God's own intellectual honesty and integrity — this brings true liberty. Set free from th persuasion that uses force to make one comply. One side allows you to choose - the other wants to make the choice for you. In that, is evidence enough to become persuaded.
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[DannyM]

Excellent. Because I am anti-religion. Religion is the opiate of the masses. I am not here to promote religion at all.

Jlay,

Why are you anti-religion?

Danny

I think because religion is actually something man creates..

Religion, especially Christianity, is overwhelmingly a force for good. Religion having the stamp of man does nothing to negate the beauty of Christianity and the untold good that has come from this wonderful religion. I'd really like to hear any 'argument' to the contrary, to be honest, rather than just ..."I'm anti-religion" ... Not very helpful.

[jlay]

Danny,

First I would contend that Christ did not come to institute 'Christianity' as a relgious system.
Now, this could be a matter of semantics, in how we are using the word religion. I would contend that yourself and Doc have a much different perception and definition of, 'religion.' Just as you and I probably do. As the world generally understands and defines religion today, I would say that religion is not a good thing. There was a true religious system put in place by the Lord in covenant with the people of Israel. Even through all of this man was seperated from God. When Christ died the veil was torn. The system was replaced with a new thing. A relationship. Man had access to God, unfettered by systems and man.

Sadly, in many cases Christianity has not been this. It has become a system. A hierarchy or control that seeks to once again place distance between God and man. We see it all the way from the pomp and circumstance at the Vatican, all the way down to the little ole country church. And we haven't even covered the fact that Islam is a religion, as is Hinduism, and many more. When we simply refer to Christianity as a religion, we do a great diservice to Christ. I could give you miles of info regarding the so called 'christian' religion and damage it has done. You don't even have to get out of the 1st century to see that. In fact the epistles are littered with evidence of this exact thing hrough Paul's rebukes.

Christianity is about a person, not a system. It is in its simplest definition, Christ Himself. And He is wonderful. His people? We need some work.

Wars are fought over religion.

James 1:27 says, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."
The church is stained from the world. And I am not surprised so many reject it today. I'm convinced that some are probably better off for it.
I'm am not one bit interested in seeing Doc Sir become religious. Because you can be the most religious person in the world, and still be headed straight for Hell. I'm interested in Him coming to know truth. And we know truth's name.

[RickD]

Danny,

First I would contend that Christ did not come to institute 'Christianity' as a relgious system.
Now, this could be a matter of semantics, in how we are using the word religion. I would contend that yourself and Doc have a much different perception and definition of, 'religion.' Just as you and I probably do. As the world generally understands and defines religion today, I would say that religion is not a good thing. There was a true religious system put in place by the Lord in covenant with the people of Israel. Even through all of this man was seperated from God. When Christ died the veil was torn. The system was replaced with a new thing. A relationship. Man had access to God, unfettered by systems and man.

Sadly, in many cases Christianity has not been this. It has become a system. A hierarchy or control that seeks to once again place distance between God and man. We see it all the way from the pomp and circumstance at the Vatican, all the way down to the little ole country church. And we haven't even covered the fact that Islam is a religion, as is Hinduism, and many more. When we simply refer to Christianity as a religion, we do a great diservice to Christ. I could give you miles of info regarding the so called 'christian' religion and damage it has done. You don't even have to get out of the 1st century to see that. In fact the epistles are littered with evidence of this exact thing hrough Paul's rebukes.

Christianity is about a person, not a system. It is in its simplest definition, Christ Himself. And He is wonderful. His people? We need some work.

Wars are fought over religion.

James 1:27 says, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."
The church is stained from the world. And I am not surprised so many reject it today. I'm convinced that some are probably better off for it.
I'm am not one bit interested in seeing Doc Sir become religious. Because you can be the most religious person in the world, and still be headed straight for Hell. I'm interested in Him coming to know truth. And we know truth's name.

[DannyM]

Jlay, reading your post I can not really disagree with you on hierarchy and wars being fought over religion. But to take the crusades, for example, do you honestly think that without religion blood would not have been spilled over something else? It's not religion that is responsible for wars; man is responsible for war. So if man had never made religion, would man have been passive forever after? When man uses religion for his own depraved/wicked/misguided ends, why blame the vehicle on which man has ridden instead of blaming man himself?

Now, this could be a matter of semantics, in how we are using the word religion. I would contend that yourself and Doc have a much different perception and definition of, 'religion.' Just as you and I probably do. As the world generally understands and defines religion today, I would say that religion is not a good thing. There was a true religious system put in place by the Lord in covenant with the people of Israel. Even through all of this man was seperated from God. When Christ died the veil was torn. The system was replaced with a new thing. A relationship. Man had access to God, unfettered by systems and man.

I'll take Oxford for this one as it defines religion quite nicely...

<<<<religion - noun 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

ORIGIN originally in the sense life under monastic vows: from Latin religio 'obligation, reverence'.>>>>

So religion has been abused? I agree. But do we honestly and rationally abandon religion and all the untold good which has come from Christianity just because the relatively few have abused their position or faith? Is that rational? I don't think it is.

Sadly, in many cases Christianity has not been this. It has become a system. A hierarchy or control that seeks to once again place distance between God and man. We see it all the way from the pomp and circumstance at the Vatican, all the way down to the little ole country church. And we haven't even covered the fact that Islam is a religion, as is Hinduism, and many more. When we simply refer to Christianity as a religion, we do a great diservice to Christ. I could give you miles of info regarding the so called 'christian' religion and damage it has done. You don't even have to get out of the 1st century to see that. In fact the epistles are littered with evidence of this exact thing hrough Paul's rebukes.

Christianity is a religion, a movement mobilised in reverence to the miracle of our Lord Jesus Christ. Without the very first - and very determined -mobilisation of Christians Christ's Glory would have been a mere fleeting moment, long forgotten by now. I respect you a heck of a lot, Jlay, but I think you are in error here brother. I stand with you on the more ludicrous aspects of our wonderful religion. But to throw the baby out with the bath water - Why?

James 1:27 says, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."
The church is stained from the world. And I am not surprised so many reject it today. I'm convinced that some are probably better off for it.
I'm am not one bit interested in seeing Doc Sir become religious. Because you can be the most religious person in the world, and still be headed straight for Hell. I'm interested in Him coming to know truth. And we know truth's name.

[/quote]

Me too. So by knowing Christ and knowing the truth then one becomes a Christian. That's religion for ya!

P.S. I'm not too interested in what James had to say.

Danny

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I'll take Oxford for this one as it defines religion quite nicely...

<<<<religion - noun 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

The definition above contains 3 aspects of religion: faith (#1), systematized worship (#2) and piousness/reverence (#3).

I think some of us are concentrating on #1 - faith in Jesus - when we hear the word «religion» and others are fixed on systematized worship, #2. Only a fool can be against #1 but God himself hates #2. (Number 3 just amplifies numbers 1 or 2.)

FL

[cslewislover]

This is interesting to read, since we can so often not realize that others don't understand a concept, like in our culture, that we easily understand. I've noticed at this board, too, that a number people have come on and understood "Christianity" only through the eyes of Catholicism. When talking of certain things, there can be unrealized miscommunication until someone gets that there's a gap of common knowledge and experience going on.

Saying that our faith is faith and not religion is common here, amongst evangelicals, anyway. It means that we have a personal relationship with Christ without needing the trappings of institutional traditions and works. Yes, Christianity is "a" religion, of course. And religion does not cause wars, people do. To make blanket statements about religion causing wars gives a nod to the atheistic argument that the world would be a better place without religion. One has to look at the specific religion or the specific person/s causing the conflict.

Here's one article from the main site, if anyone is interested: What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion?