Pascal's Wager Article

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Pascal's Wager Article

Post by Canuckster1127 »

New Article on the main board from Rich Deem

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... wager.html
What is Wrong with Pascal's Wager?
by Rich Deem

Introduction

Pascal's Wager?

You will often find Pascal's wager as an apologetic for belief in Christianity. The problem is that the wager claims to save one from judgment, when, according to biblical Christianity, it does no such thing...
Rich Deem

Pascal's wager was originally put forth by Blaise Pascal, a 17th century philosopher and mathematician. According to the wager, God may or may not exist. If God does exist and you choose to believe in God, then your reward is very high (eternal life in heaven). However, if you do not believe in God, your penalty is very high (eternal punishment in hell). If God does not exist, and you do believe in God, you lose nothing. If you do not believe in a God who does not exist, you gain nothing. If there is an equal chance that God exists or does not exist, then the best wager is to choose the one that has the best payoff (God does exist).

What's wrong with the wager? On the surface, Pascal's wager seems like a no-brainer. One should believe because in believing you either lose nothing or gain everything. However, the unstated assumption in the wager is that belief in God guarantees one a place in heaven. With regard to Christianity, the assumption is false. Belief in God, in and of itself, is not sufficient to ensure entry into heaven, since the demons also believe, but are condemned:

You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. (James 2:19)

The reasons that the demons shudder at the thought of God is that they know that they are destined for hell.1 Why don't they repent and come back to God? God has set different criteria for salvation for angels (including the demons, who are fallen angels2). Whereas those who have never seen God directly can come to sincere faith at any time in their lives,3 those who have direct evidence of God's existence are condemned by any act of disobedience.4 The Bible says that one third of the angels followed Satan into rebellion1 and are already eternally condemned.4 You should be glad that you have never seen God directly!

An intellectual belief that God exists is not enough, since judgment is based upon what is in one's heart.5 Pretending to believe or going through the motions of some church service is not going to be looked upon very favorably by God.6 In fact, Jesus said that many would do all those religious things, but still be condemned:

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'" (Matthew 7:22-23)

Jesus' wager Actually, Jesus never made a wager, but He did tell people how to get to heaven. In fact, He claimed to be the way to heaven:

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." (John 14:6)

Jesus had a very interesting exchange with Nicodemus, one of the leaders of the Pharisees (the Jews' religious ruling group).7 In this conversation, Jesus told him that he had to be born again (which is where the term "born again Christian" comes from). He explained that being born again was accomplished by believing in Him:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (John 3:16-21)

Conclusion The problem with Pascal's wager is that the assumption that belief in God is sufficient to get one into heaven is false. Demons believe and are condemned. An intellectual belief simply in God's existence is not sufficient for entry into heaven. One must agree with God and accept His terms for salvation. After all, heaven is a place where we voluntarily give up our "right" to sin, to spend eternity with the Holy One, who will turn us into perfect creatures8 because of our desires to be such on earth.

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Related PagesGod Tests the Hearts of People
What Will Heaven be Like?
Questions on Salvation: What is the Gospel?

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References"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; (Matthew 25:41)
And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (Revelation 12:9)
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; (2 Peter 2:4)
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
Angels are not covered under the gospel:
It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things into which angels long to look. (1 Peter 1:12)
Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; Assuredly, he will not be unpunished. (Proverbs 16:5)
"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man." (Matthew 15:18)
But, O LORD of hosts, who judges righteously, Who tries the feelings and the heart... (Jeremiah 11:20)
But Thou knowest me, O LORD; Thou seest me; And Thou dost examine my heart's attitude toward Thee... (Jeremiah 12:3)
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives. (Proverbs 16:2)
Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. (1 Corinthians 4:5)
And I will kill her children with pestilence; and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. (Revelation 2:23)
Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; (John 3:1)
this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." (John 3:2)
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)
Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" (John 3:4)
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)
"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' (John 3:7)
"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)
Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?" (John 3:9)
Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? (John 3:10)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. (John 3:11)
"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? (John 3:12)
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. (John 3:13)
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; (John 3:14)
so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. (John 3:15)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. (John 3:17)
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. (John 3:19)
"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. (John 3:20)
"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (John 3:21)
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, (Hebrews 12:23)
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... wager.html
Last Modified September 2, 2006
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
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Post by Atticus Finch »

Very interesting.

I know far too many people who take an impersonal stance towards God (if He exists they presume). This enables them only to feel His possible presence but not His love.

I fear that many people upon their death will greatly regret their lethargy in researching religion and God.
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Paul's way to preach as instructed in scripture.

Post by Oriental »

I think it is a good article.

Usually I see people preach simply with a statement: "do you believe in God whose sovereign power is almighty?" and full-stop. It is true on the campus those days when I was studying in university, fellow Christian dashed around and used to lie in wait for passers-by with simple question like this, probably conveying insufficient message about the Good News. Salvation is more important message; unfortunately, unless the passers-by happen to be attracted to the religion, it doesn't sound to be opportune to lead him to greater details.

However I think it's not good to refute Pascal's wager right away. In Pauls epistle to Corinthian, he commented to preach with giving way to the heathens' lifestyle and thoughts; it sounds like coaxing but it isn't true; Paul insisted on "take the side of the heathens" to "win them".

It may turn things urgy if one fails to spur massive effort to lead one back to purity in scripture, which the heathens find "it should've been the truth" compared with when they were approached at first sight.

It is highly skilful, I bet to preach indeed.


Oriental.
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Post by Turgonian »

I don't think springing on passers-by is a very good way of spreading the Gospel, whether the opening is 'Do you believe in God Almighty?' or 'Jesus loves you!'
The Bible says they were "willingly ignorant". In the Greek, this means "be dumb on purpose". (Kent Hovind)
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Reminiscent of those days.

Post by Oriental »

Turgonian wrote:I don't think springing on passers-by is a very good way of spreading the Gospel, whether the opening is 'Do you believe in God Almighty?' or 'Jesus loves you!'
It quite depends on the situation. I didn't spring on anyone because I was not yet a Christian then.

In university, students are more easy-going; I was sprung on quite much but I bore no disgust against any of them. I don't know how the others may react, though.

Oriental.


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Post by sandy_mcd »

That's one fatal flaw in the argument.

Another is "If there is an equal chance that God exists or does not exist". Apropos other threads, how does one establish the odds of God's existence?
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Post by charlottecowell »

sandy_mcd wrote:That's one fatal flaw in the argument.

Another is "If there is an equal chance that God exists or does not exist". Apropos other threads, how does one establish the odds of God's existence?
I think it's pretty much accpeted that 'God's' (the 'designer's') existence is, statistically, far more likely than God's non-existence, given the harmony of universe and consciousnesss of mankind. So many cutting edge physicists are starting to appreciate the unity inherent in creation, they're just to find an effective mathematical expression for it, which in a sense is a kabbalistic tendency, whether that be conscious or unconscious

As for Pascal, he makes an excellent point, the most fail-safe argument for any believer and definitely the one I would fall back on in sanguine moments (which come often). Regarding the comment at the start about judgement, I do not think Pascal meant it to be read in such a detailed way, he made a simplified statement for impact, so it would be very readily understood. the qualifications would come later in the hypothesis - for example, that being a believer is one thing but living like one is often another
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by Gabrielman »

:sbump: Just Bumping it for my own use, maybe we could revive this thread?
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein »

Pascal's Wager is usually resumed in a single sentence which goes like this: «Belief in God will get you joy in this life and a place in the next; and if it turns out that God doesn't exist, at least you'll have joy in this life.»

Rich Deem's summary of the Wager is even shorter than mine:
One should believe because in believing you either lose nothing or gain everything.
Pascal's Wager meanders over 20 pages in Pensées («Thoughts»), occupying all of Sections III and IV... Resuming the Wager in a single sentence is like saying that an automobile is made of plastic, metal and has 4 wheels. A lot of information is lost! How can anybody understand the Wager if all they ever hear are others' opinions?

Here are some quotes from sections III and IV:

-...recognise that there are two kinds of people one can call reasonable; those who serve God with all their heart because they know Him, and those who seek God with all their heart because they do not know Him. (from point 194)

-The sensibility of man to trifles and his insensibility to great things, indicates a strange inversion. (198)

-Atheism shows strength of mind, but only to a certain degree. (225)

-...it is certain that those who have the living faith in their hearts see at once that all existence is none other than the work of the God whom they adore. (242)

FL
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by Kristoffer »

Pascals wager takes the risk out of something that is a Risk, you do lose something by being good(and more by being Christian),you have to be a certain kind of person that otherwise you could afford to not be. Also the wager does not preclude the answer. Meaning that a different god, and you are wrong again. So really it does have missing information. Like the value of Hunches and Risks and what a real gamble is!
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein »

Kristoffer wrote: you do lose something by being good(and more by being Christian),you have to be a certain kind of person that otherwise you could afford to not be.
Go ahead and ask the people who post on this board if they have lost anything by ''becoming Christian'' as you put it. I am certain that each one of them will tell you that they have gained far more since accepting Jesus as Lord of their life. Ask them and learn from what they will tell you.
Kristoffer wrote:Pascals wager takes the risk out of something that is a Risk... Also the wager does not preclude the answer. Meaning that a different god, and you are wrong again. So really it does have missing information. Like the value of Hunches and Risks and what a real gamble is!... Also the wager does not preclude the answer. Meaning that a different god, and you are wrong again. So really it does have missing information. Like the value of Hunches and Risks and what a real gamble is!
When reading the Wager, you must keep two things in mind:

1. Pascal was a devout Catholic (a Jansenist, actually)
2. Pascal may have written the Wager with the idea to convince non-believers...at least this seems plausible.

Regarding #1, I have no doubt that Pascal fulfilled Jesus' requirement set forth in John 3:3. This is evident to me when I read the Wager. Pascal is a born-again believer presently with God.
Regarding #2, I - me, myself - I speak differently about God depending on my audience. An unbelieving audience gets one speech, A believing audience gets another speech because they already understand and do not need to be led by the hand. This is just normal.

As for ''a different god and you are wrong again,'' there is no other God but God. Pascal's God is my God and he's your's as well. If you don't recognize him and accept the sacrifice he made for you, you are toast. God will respect your choice and upon your death you will spend eternity away from him in the place that has been prepared for you. Ultimately, YOU choose.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

+ + +

If they had a social gospel in the days of the prodigal son, somebody would have given him a bed and a sandwich and he never would have gone home.

+ + +
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by smiley »

It seems to me Rich is simply commiting a typical No True Faith fallacy.

- I have faith in God.

- Do you love God, go to church, etc?

- No.

- Then you have No True Faith.
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by narnia4 »

In reply to Kristoffer on another thread, but probably belongs here-
Kristoffer wrote: Your loss is not if you are not right about the gamble is not nothing, if you take the gamble and are wrong, you miss out in some ways on living this life 100% because of concentrating on a future life. I can even go into more detail...

But quite simply the wager produges no Hunches for me that would make me want to take that gamble. :ewink:
There may very well be a number of them, but of the Christians I know NONE of them (that I'm aware of) feel like they aren't living life 100%. Most felt as if a tremendous burden has been lifted off their backs when they were saved and none of them regret it. I'm sure you could ask anyone here whether they felt happier and more fulfilled before or after become Christians, and the answers you find would all be the same. I think you would find that this is especially true of those who become Christians later in life and have seen both sides of the coin and tried two completely different lifestyles.

I could go into detail as well why it makes sense that Christians are happier (there are studies that say this, by the way) and more fulfilled, but I'll leave it here.

One thing that I think non-believers should most definitely do is to explore every option and to approach Christianity honestly and willing to learn. Dismissing it without thinking about it doesn't help you. Too often Pascal's Wager is treated as if it's supposed to be a "proof" for God, but I see it as a very convincing reason why skeptics should "try" to learn about Christianity honestly.
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by Kristoffer »

Kristoffer wrote:Yea well even so, his relationship between Christ could of been wonderful and brilliant. But his wager could of still been a mistake, if you really understand it then you would know some of the reason why to NOT take the gamble. There are better reasons than "oh but you might be WRONG! Oh yes and if you are wrong, your loss is infinite!" Your loss is not if you are not right about the gamble is not nothing, if you take the gamble and are wrong, you miss out in some ways on living this life 100% because of concentrating on a future life. I can even go into more detail...

But quite simply the wager produges no Hunches for me that would make me want to take that gamble. :ewink:
[/quote] (original)

Anyway this burden that is lifted? How is that "shouldering your cross", don't you have a cross to bear? :D
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Re: Pascal's Wager Article

Post by DannyM »

narnia4 wrote:In reply to Kristoffer on another thread, but probably belongs here-
Kristoffer wrote: Your loss is not if you are not right about the gamble is not nothing, if you take the gamble and are wrong, you miss out in some ways on living this life 100% because of concentrating on a future life. I can even go into more detail...

But quite simply the wager produges no Hunches for me that would make me want to take that gamble. :ewink:
There may very well be a number of them, but of the Christians I know NONE of them (that I'm aware of) feel like they aren't living life 100%. Most felt as if a tremendous burden has been lifted off their backs when they were saved and none of them regret it. I'm sure you could ask anyone here whether they felt happier and more fulfilled before or after become Christians, and the answers you find would all be the same. I think you would find that this is especially true of those who become Christians later in life and have seen both sides of the coin and tried two completely different lifestyles.

I could go into detail as well why it makes sense that Christians are happier (there are studies that say this, by the way) and more fulfilled, but I'll leave it here.

One thing that I think non-believers should most definitely do is to explore every option and to approach Christianity honestly and willing to learn. Dismissing it without thinking about it doesn't help you. Too often Pascal's Wager is treated as if it's supposed to be a "proof" for God, but I see it as a very convincing reason why skeptics should "try" to learn about Christianity honestly.
Only a skank would have something to lose from accepting Christianity. Doesn't the immediate follow up to your post make you want to weep?

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