If babies automatically go to heaven...

[cslewislover]

Well, why does God need a horse? (Jesus' Desciples Steal a Colt--"the lord needs it!" So that makes it ok? )

Are you serious? They didn't steal it, for one, and for the other, it says in the bible why they asked to use it.

Everlasting fire...Gnashing of teeth; When talking about such things its probably best to be straight and to the point instead of using vaguaries, but if metaphor is what the people of that time understood then that is what he would of used.

They were more into metaphor and such, but who says Jesus is talking metaphor there? Have you not read the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31)? Something to think about, but I don't know all about hell.

ALMOST not honouring his Mother, see the bit about the wedding that Jesus Is at were he supposedly turns water to wine, his attitude towards his mother seems a bit cold if truth be told.

Woman was a like saying "Madam." He obviously honored her by doing what she asked. Besides, I think the whole thing funny, and who knows, it may have been meant to be funny. I could see my son acting that way towards me.

PS. here are two links is not a good response, I already said that I would rather have your opinion's and not someone else's apologetic rationalizations. If you need me to elaborate on why it isn't then I can privately. I will how ever look at Rich's page.

Excuse me? You expect a bit much if you think I'm going to write essays for you every time I post to you, which has already taken a lot of my time. If you would've looked at those, you'd see that they are concise. The second article gives more views than Rich's, if you care to learn more.

[Kristoffer]

Actually the first link was rather good, you do not need to right massive essays, not for me anyway. Just confirm that the things you link to are in accordance with your own opinion.

Anyway, That just shows how much of my "understanding" of the gospels, is a huge JOKE. How could I, say that those things are mistakes. The story of lazarus and the rich man is not very appealing to me, If you want my total Opinion on that story I can tell you privately.

Anyway I must Kip, or my brain will explode or something.

[DannyM]

Deleted, sort of.

[Different_Name]

Wow, and I thought my topic was finished.

Well, since I'm this topic's creator, I might as well give my input on a few of these issues.
Regarding "soul sleep", I don't remember seeing Luke 23:43 mentioned, where Jesus said to the criminal that was being executed with him "This day, you shall be with me in paradise." Though in response to this, one could cite how Adam didn't die on the day he was supposed to "surely die" and the Psalm that says a day to the Lord is 1000 years.

Then wouldn't abortion be doing the aborted fetuses a great favor by giving them a free ticket to heaven without them having the chance to deny Jesus?

Thy shall not kill.

This answers the question in regards to the killer. The question is about the baby/fetus.

I'll give the answer everyone is too scared to give.

Yes. The answer is yes, the murderer is essentially "doing the fetus a favor".

However we are not told to be 100% sure that this happens. While the scriptures speaks of child innocense, it also speaks that NOT ONE IS INNOCENT...not even from conception. Adding to this that the scripture and Christ Himself, claims only one gate/path to heaven, that being Christ also throws doubt in the mix.

It is best to leave the Judgement to the Judge and trust He is Just. We shouldn't presume what's not clearly explained to us.
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Well, thank you for that answer. The verses that talk about how no one is innocent make me think that we can't totally be sure that all unborn children go to heaven, which might be true, but I think the belief could also be a double-edged sword.

I notice someone also mentioned birth control pills. The difference is that aborting stops what has already started while birth control pills prevent it from happening in the first place. There'd be no murder occurring by taking birth control pills, but it would still be taking things out of the control of God. And you've got to ask yourself, is preventing a life from being conceived that much different from preventing a child from being born? They both accomplish the same task (taking control of things as opposed to leaving them with God); the key difference is that one involves murder, while the other involves a pseudo-Minority Report style of stopping something. I'm sure there's an analogy for this, I just can't think of any.

As for Jesus saying to his mother, "Woman, what have I to do with you? My hour is not yet come," I have to admit, I always found that verse quite humorous, and it was nice to see an explanation for it.

[Kristoffer]

it would still be taking things out of the control of God.

Just like totally eradicating small pox? do you really think that, go forth and "multiply" is a very moral commandment? The world only has a finite amount of space, not enough for too many humans. (of course there is more space out in the universe but getting there is a problem.

[cslewislover]

it would still be taking things out of the control of God.

Just like totally eradicating small pox? do you really think that, go forth and "multiply" is a very moral commandment? The world only has a finite amount of space, not enough for too many humans. (of course there is more space out in the universe but getting there is a problem.

Kristoffer, how many times do we have to ask you to be more thoughtful? What does smallpox have to do with anything? If you want to make an argument about evil in the world and God's morality, there are threads on that. It's cool that God gave us the brains, and the will, to defeat smallpox. I thought you were into doing things yourself? So . . . the rest of us aren't?? What's the problem with God telling Adam and Eve to go and have babies? There weren't any yet . . . Why don't you start viewing God, just for the sake of debate, through loving lenses. Do you really think that God would tell humans to fill the earth so much that they couldn't really live and ended up destroying everything in the process? That's not what Judaism or Christianity is all about. Please seek to find out more about our faith before you make any more snide or sarcastic comments.

Consider this a warning.

[sinnerbybirth]

I notice someone also mentioned birth control pills. The difference is that aborting stops what has already started while birth control pills prevent it from happening in the first place. There'd be no murder occurring by taking birth control pills, but it would still be taking things out of the control of God.

Hey Different_Name, This is something my wife and I both researched before we made a decision on birth control. By the way the word "control" in birth control should say it all. She has been in the medical profession for around 16 years. Not that that makes her an expert, but she knows more about what Oral contraception does based on her study of it. Anyway, feel free to check out the links below. Need more, let me know.


http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/kah/k ... orks1.html

http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Feb/1 ... l-cause-a/

GOD Bless

[B. W.]

I rest my case...

For the principles mentioned in Deuteronomy 10:17 and Gal 2:6 to be absolutely true, then how could God show partiality (favoritism) for only two to avoid soul sleep but the rest must soul sleep?

Next, if some are allowed to live and others must be annihilated into non-being then that too would make God demonstrate partiality - favoring one with life by denying life to another. Such is the absolute justice of God that can clearly demonstrate no partiality...

You have a problem with God showing partiality/favoritism? Really? How then do you reconcile God not moving EVERY heart towards Him? If He "can", why wouldn't He do so? I am totally comfortable with God showing favoritism to those that put their faith in Him. He calls Himself a jealous God.

Did Jesus show partiality for Lazarus in only raising him up? Why didn't Jesus raise the millions in their graves to make the point? Was it because He was good friends with the family? Hmm. What had they done to gain His favor?

Please don't get your feathers ruffled BavarianWheels...

I've been on the road from June 28 till July 11 - from FL to CO, to NM. Guest on a TV and radio show then a revival meeting for a week. I haven't been able to post since July 5 to answer you.

God showing no Favoritism is part of God's character as that defines his justice. He offers a call to all. To those that hear and know him he draws out. Jesus and Lazarus knew each other. So Lazarus was one known foreknown by the Lord to hearken onto the Lord and know him. That is not favoritism / partiality.

Favoritism / partiality involve blind selection — no offer: no call — just random selection. That makes justice devoid of being absolutely just. For example, if I favor one and curse another based solely on my personal whim: that's favoritism / partiality.

Creating the call so one can respond to this call does not produce favoritism / partiality because the person has the responsibility to respond either positively or negatively. If positive, that changes things and the Lord blesses fairly with total impartiality show to all.

Being fair to the unborn, babies, small children, and severely developmentally disabled does not show favoritism / partiality either as such lack the intelligence to be able to respond. It would be unjust to doom them that cannot reason to a terrible eternal fate. Such is the great justice of God that shows no favoritism / partiality.

But for us, who grow and have reached that state of reason the call goes forth. Despite God foreknowing the final outcome of how we respond to his call, he still calls to all. Therefore, God could Love Jacob and did not like Esau without showing any favoritism / partiality to either because what he foreknew about each before they ever were and can bless whom he will bless and have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and He have compassion on whom he will have compassion…

I think you are intelligent and can garner the difference between favoritism / partiality and God's fairness of his unfathomable justice…

Be blest!
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[truthman]

B.W.
Well said.