Could Jesus Accept someone like this?

[zoegirl]

What do you think happens to your place?

If you are an engineer, you can remain an engineer...
If you are a teacher, you can remain a teacher....

You haven't answered this. What do you think happens to your place when you become a Christian?

Depends on how you view effort and perspiration, I happen to view it better than the alternative. Idleness and day dreaming.

what???? care to explain this??? Fully please?

[cslewislover]

Yeah, it's frustrating. Krisotoffer, do you enjoy frustrating people? What do you mean by place? Well, anyway, normally it doesn't change your job or something, but it changes your spiritual place. You become part of the body of Christ, instead a part of the world. For me, I actually "felt" the transformation.

Oh, and yes, as others said, Christ can forgive a murderer (and yes, God knows if you're sincere). I didn't look at that video . . . yet.

I think "judgment" should be spelled the UK way, as "judgement."

[Kristoffer]

I meant that working to prove your graced... Its better than thinking that god has given you a gift and doing nothing about it.[not accusing]

I have been watching lots of films. I found that one a bit sad.

[DannyM]

Yeah, it's frustrating. Krisotoffer, do you enjoy frustrating people?

He's playing hard on your good nature. I could never tell you what to do - I aspire to be like you. But I seriously do not like it one bit.

[cslewislover]

I meant that working to prove your graced... Its better than thinking that god has given you a gift and doing nothing about it.[not accusing]

I have been watching lots of films. I found that one a bit sad.

Did you see my post on the other thread here? It directly speaks of this, except for accepting a gift as being a problem. Lol? It fits right in with the stereotype I already wrote about. It is actually quite funny! What in the world is wrong with accepting a gift? If it were a case of guinness, would that be an acceptable gift?

[Kristoffer]

I would rather accept what I deserve, than what I do not.

[MyPetWorm]

So basically Kristoffer, your believe that you should work for your salvation, not be given it. Fair enough point, I know quite a few (Non-Christians) who believe this.

Have you ever seen the movie Constatine? Main actor the same main actor as the Matrix, about being an exorcist basically. I haven't seen this movie in ages, but it was on TV not too long ago here and I saw a part of it that explained your above problem pretty well I think.

When the main actor is talking to an angel (Which should be a Male but for some reason is Female here >.>) he talks about how he dislikes God because he has worked towards his Salvation, but has not been given it. He states that he has ripped demons out of little girls etc, so why doesn't he get entry? The angel in then replies - "You have done lots of good work, yes, but for yourself. You are doing good work to try get entry, not to be a good person". If you try work your way into heaven, most chances are your human heart will be working for yourself, not for God.

Where as if you go the way that these above guys and girls have said, you recieve the gift first, and then work to feel like you deserve it. That way you are working for good, not for yourself.

(Being rushed out the door so sorry if I repeated myself! )

[cslewislover]

I would rather accept what I deserve, than what I do not.

Yes at Worm. From all you've said, K, you think you ought to get into heaven by your own abilities. I'd dare say that you are daring God to tell you that what you do isn't good enough. But "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." To imagine that you can be good enough in the presence of God is either very prideful, or having a low attitude about God (not conceiving how really amazing He is), or simply hidden anger towards God ("I'm not going to take your gift . . . if you made me, I'm good enough without your help, etc.).

Anyone I've ever met that is a wonderful loving Christian is one who realizes, because they've developed some humility, that they deserve punishment. After David sinned big time because he had Bathsheba's husband killed, and then took her, he told God that he sinned against HIM. We do uncharitable things to others, but all things uncharitable and sinful are acts against God Himself. There needs to be some acknowledgment of that, or you'll never get anywhere. You'll never feel you need to humble yourself and say sorry to God. You can't work your way out of that one. It's like committing adultery and never saying sorry to your wife; you just keep working and bringing a paycheck home, and you wonder why she never forgives you or warms up to you . . . (this is an extreme example - Jesus said it was OK to leave a spouse in this situation - it was just an easy one to think up quick).

[zoegirl]

I would rather accept what I deserve, than what I do not.

Obviously this points out that you do not understand what you reject (or believe it)

But think of it this way. Imagine if you could have a relationship with an amazing person, the most amazing person you can think of, wonderful, pure, loving, amazing...and suddenly you realize that there is no way you could have a relationship with them because of who you are (who we all are)...not as wonderful, not as pure, not as great, not as loving, not amazing...in fact the reason you can't is that you have transgressed against this person, you have done something, you are something. The more you ponder who this person is and who you are they more you realize you can't have a relationship. In fact this transgression means you can't have the relationship. In this analogy, you may understand the justice of this. A murderer can't simply be let off free, a sinner can't be let free...there is the consequence for the sin.

Now imagine if this person not only wants to have a relationship with you, but in fact this person pays the price, pays the consequence for what you did. (think of it from a law perspective...this person whom you have transgressed does your time for you). In doing so, this person satisfies the justice of the transgression but this person has now allowed you to have a relationship with them.

This, in essence, is what we believe. We don't, in our sins, we can't have a relationship with God. Our sins prevent that. Now maybe you don't think this, but we would all agree that having a relationship with our Creator, our Redeemer, is an amazing thing, a wonderful thing. And this relationship is possible because He Himself wanted it, (and still wants it), and was willing to place Himself in our place and accept the wrath that was for us.

Now you may not believe this and you may think you don't deserve this wrath....we understand that we all do...those are our beliefs.

Please think on this before replying, so that your questions may be edifying to everyone here.

[DannyM]

I meant that working to prove your graced... Its better than thinking that god has given you a gift and doing nothing about it.[not accusing]

I have been watching lots of films. I found that one a bit sad.

Did you see my post on the other thread here? It directly speaks of this, except for accepting a gift as being a problem. Lol? It fits right in with the stereotype I already wrote about. It is actually quite funny! What in the world is wrong with accepting a gift? If it were a case of guinness, would that be an acceptable gift?

Sister, you are running rings 'round this individual. Yet we are letting him get away with some extreme ducking and weaving. And why? Because we are Christians. Because it is 'expected' of us. To hell with this, is what I say.

[cslewislover]

Yeah, we're a bit like doctors giving blood transfusions, over and over . . . but only one blood will do.

[DannyM]

Yeah, we're a bit like doctors giving blood transfusions, over and over . . . but only one blood will do.

Thank the heavens, I'm now smiling!

[sinnerbybirth]

Yeah, we're a bit like doctors giving blood transfusions, over and over . . . but only one blood will do.

Great analogy CS. I'll be using that one in the future.

[Silvertusk]

I would rather accept what I deserve, than what I do not.

That is pride - one of the greatest sins. With this attitude you will never truely understand what grace is.

[Kristoffer]

Why is it pride? I do not know how easy it would to feel guilty if my guilt could feel forgiven by the click of my fingers.(well not literally like this)

How do you feel guilt, you still do feel right? I do not want to lose myself.