Crickets

[BavarianWheels]

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The crickets are deafening.


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[sinnerbybirth]

I'm not to suprised after all the smoking keyboards.

[livebyfaith]

I'm sure you all will recover. I sent some emails complaining about the ban - following procedures and all - to the board admin. It is what it is. Decisions have been made. I, however, won't be back. Not after all that.

Farewell, GodAndScience. After more than a decade, I can no longer post here in good conscience. The double standards are too much. I wish you all the best.

God bless

[BavarianWheels]

I'm sure you all will recover. I sent some emails complaining about the ban - following procedures and all - to the board admin. It is what it is. Decisions have been made. I, however, won't be back. Not after all that.

Farewell, GodAndScience. After more than a decade, I can no longer post here in good conscience. The double standards are too much. I wish you all the best.

God bless

It may be best this way. I don't think this forum wants any "Christian" claiming the Gospel is: "Believe in Christ and then you can live like hell as much as your sinful heart desires without ANY change in life and be confident in salvation."

That is not a gospel at all. The Gospel WILL change you. The change is evidence that you have true faith.

Thanks for playing along, Jac.
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[sinnerbybirth]

One thing I think everyone needs to remember, Galatians 5:19-25.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

I will be the first to say, I have practiced works of the flesh on this site. I have also apologized to my brothers and sisters for this.

I hope, we are all not so heavenly minded that we are no earthy good.

[zoegirl]

One thing I think everyone needs to remember, Galatians 5:19-25.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

I will be the first to say, I have practiced works of the flesh on this site. I have also apologized to my brothers and sisters for this.

I hope, we are all not so heavenly minded that we are no earthy good.

Very good post sinner....it's interesting that we have been debating, slinging some mud, about the works of the Spirit and such and her we all are showing some works of the flesh...at least with regard to temper and enmity...

Sometimes it scary how words can tumble out, they take wing, and before we can catch them and recapture them, they are out there..

Actually listening to the crickets right now outside my house...they're not so bad

[sinnerbybirth]

Thanks Zoe.
As you well know, I have thrown my fair share of mud in your direction. So, by no means am I excluding myself from this. I've also learned (from you) that at the end of the day we are still brothers and sisters in Christ.
I'm proof, that you can teach an old dog new tricks.

One body!

[Canuckster1127]

Jac,

I'm disappointed that you've declared the choice that you have. We have been acquaintances through this board for years and despite our own occassional brush ups, I've considered and still consider you a friend.

Nevertheless, since you've chosen to bypass the temporary ban that was placed upon you, publically, I have to say this publically.

Your actions and declaration here demonstrate a lack of basic respect and courtesy for the moderation of this board. You were fully within your rights and remain within them to contact the board Administrator and owner. By then chosing to come back, establish a new account and using that to present yourself as a martyr and then making a dramatic exit, with an appeal to your longevity, you are effectively thumbing your nose and acting in a manner that is contrary to the board guidelines, but more importantly, contrary to the general spirit of living at peace with brothers and sisters in Christ; even those with whom you disagree.

Early in the public thread that escalated to this issue, you declared publically that you never get angry and then proceeded to paint your actions in the light of a desire for truth. Respectfully Jac, I don't see evidence of that here and I don't fault you or anyone else for getting angry. As you know, Christ got angry on several occassions and it is not necessarily inappropriate to be angry in many different contexts. When you have an opportunity, I would encourage you to go back to your thread, put yourself in the position of someone who doesn't know you and will read that thread and ask yourself if you're being honest with yourself and others as to the presence of anger and the manner, not only you, but also others conducted themselves. I can tell you as someone who came to it later and observed the entire conversation there was no shortage of anger on the part of many participants, including you, my friend.

I sincerely hope that your presence on the board continues, but that is not the purpose of this post. As a friend and a moderator on this board, I hope Jac, that you'll consider being honest with yourself and others that you do indeed get angry and there's every indication to me, that that anger was a part in escalating the direction that that thread took. Further there's every sign to me that in that continued anger you proceeded to disregard and disrespect the very basic guidelines of this board to strike back and make a dramatic exit designed to present yourself as a martyr and undermine the moderation of the board for your own purposes and self-justification.

Whether you return or not, I pray you'll consider the impact of your tone and actions here and when you've cooled off, consider if this is the manner in which you want to minister from your knowledge and the final exclamation point that you wish to publically put to your extensive posting here in the past. Does this represent the final statement and action you wish those who read your other materials to see in terms of the fruit of everything else you have to say? Knowledge without love puffs a person up and well, you know the rest.

I debated long and hard whether to make these statements publically. As it is, the offense that I'm observing here has taken place publically and the response is appropriate I believe in the same forum.

I sincerely love and appreciate you Jac. I'm not thrilled with some of what I've seen here and you're not the only offending party. I'm a flawed vessel myself and confess it freely before you and others. Whether you return or not, my prayer for you is that you'll grow and perhaps look at what denying anger and then proceeding to express it and taking on a mantle of martyrdom does to the presentation of the gospel that I know you profess and evidence in many other regards to love.

Blessings,

bart

[Byblos]

I am truly saddened that it had to happen like this but I fully agree with Bart. I sincerely hope you will change your mind (and your attitude) Jac and decide to come back. If not, I hope you will stay in touch in some other way. Whatever your decision, just know that you will always be considered a friend and a brother in Christ.

[Canuckster1127]

I'm sure you all will recover. I sent some emails complaining about the ban - following procedures and all - to the board admin. It is what it is. Decisions have been made. I, however, won't be back. Not after all that.

Farewell, GodAndScience. After more than a decade, I can no longer post here in good conscience. The double standards are too much. I wish you all the best.

God bless

It may be best this way. I don't think this forum wants any "Christian" claiming the Gospel is: "Believe in Christ and then you can live like hell as much as your sinful heart desires without ANY change in life and be confident in salvation."

That is not a gospel at all. The Gospel WILL change you. The change is evidence that you have true faith.

Thanks for playing along, Jac.
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Bav,

This is not particularly gracious and does little toward restoring relationships. As I stated to Jac, he's not the only one in the context of these recent conversations who has written in anger. As has been pointed out to you as well, it appears to me that you're attributing a position to Jac and putting words in his mouth that I'm pretty confident he doesn't espouse.

There's plenty of blame and responsibility to go around for what has taken place here. Please resist the temptation to get in any last digs and ask yourself too if you would want to be treated in this manner if the situation were reversed.

bart

[BavarianWheels]

Bav,

This is not particularly gracious and does little toward restoring relationships. As I stated to Jac, he's not the only one in the context of these recent conversations who has written in anger. As has been pointed out to you as well, it appears to me that you're attributing a position to Jac and putting words in his mouth that I'm pretty confident he doesn't espouse.

There's plenty of blame and responsibility to go around for what has taken place here. Please resist the temptation to get in any last digs and ask yourself too if you would want to be treated in this manner if the situation were reversed.

bart

Bart,

If we take Jac at face value lately,

What I DID say was that loving God was not a condition for salvation. John 3:16 says believing in Jesus is the condition for salvation. I don't see anything there about loving or obeying God.

It says to believe in Jesus. Full stop. Add to that and you add to the Gospel.

And Bav, in each of your cases, if a person believes (trusts) in Jesus Christ for their eternal salvation, then yes, ALL OF THEM ARE SAVED. No other evidence is necessary. The evidence is in the fact that they did the one thing the Bible told them to do. If you want to tell Jesus He was wrong in John 3:16 and other such verses, be my guest. We've had this discussion before. Anything other than the faith alone Gospel is another gospel, which Paul expressly condemns in Gal 18-9.

Jesus says that EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM is saved. If a person believes but doesn't repent or isn't baptized or doesn't live a good life or whatever the heck else, then Jesus says they are saved. To say that anything else is required is to say to Jesus, "No not EVERYONE who believes, because there are some who believe but don't do these other things. So Jesus, You need to change your conditions here, because as You have it, You've made some mistakes. So sit here, Jesus, and let me teach You what a person REALLY has to do to be saved." So if you want to be like the Muslims and Hindus and Mormons and tell Jesus that His way is wrong, that you have the right way, then, again, be my guest. I'm standing on John 3:16.

How we live, BW, has nothing to do with whether or not we really believed.

If Gabe is saying you can lose your salvation, he is saying a lot more than that. Certainly, believing in Jesus makes you a new man, which allows you to live differently. Only then can you walk according to the Spirit. But believing the Gospel doesn't mean you WILL walk according to the Spirit, and refusing to walk according to the Spirit, contrary to Gabe, does NOT mean that you will lose your salvation. John 3:16 guarantees that.

What I am against is saying that if you DON'T change you life, then you haven't believed.

That's the issue under discussion, isn't it, csll? If the Gospel is to be understood as I am explaining it, then many here DON'T believe it. Everyone here, for the most part, considers themselves Christians. But then again, so do Mormons and JWs. Remember Matt 7:21ff. Not everyone who claims the name Christian believes the Gospel.

then I still stand on what I said initially. If he believes a person can "believe" in Christ yet live according to the flesh with no remorse, regret, or thought to change nor need, then it is best for this forum that he leave. I think it is the belief of this forum and the vast majority of Christianity that it is true that FAITH ALONE saves, but that FAITH is described in greater detail in the whole of scripture. If God revealed Himself through scripture and the whole of "scripture" is only the words of John 3:16, then Jac would be right we wouldn't be discussing the properties of true faith vs. dead faith as described in scripture.

If he is teaching this as we suspect he is (otherwise there wouldn't be a controversy here) then I stand by what I wrote and you find offensive.
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[robyn hill]

I think there are people who believe in Christ, don't change their behavior, and will still go to heaven. My mother has been a struggling alchoholic since she was young. She has progressively worsened to the point of returning to Canada,( she has duel citizenship) and is now essentially homeless and drinks every day. She is not happy with herself, she has just given up on her life. My mother continues to pray to God every day. I see many struggling homeless people in our country who proclaim to be Christians, and I believe they are sincere, but struggle with mental issues that are beyond their control. I think mental disease can sometimes be as dehabilitating as phisical diseases, but I believe God accepts them just as He accepts those with phisical problems. I hope this isn't why Jac was taken off this board, he has written helpful posts on here.

[Byblos]

I think there are people who believe in Christ, don't change their behavior, and will still go to heaven. My mother has been a struggling alchoholic since she was young. She has progressively worsened to the point of returning to Canada,( she has duel citizenship) and is now essentially homeless and drinks every day. She is not happy with herself, she has just given up on her life. My mother continues to pray to God every day. I see many struggling homeless people in our country who proclaim to be Christians, and I believe they are sincere, but struggle with mental issues that are beyond their control. I think mental disease can sometimes be as dehabilitating as phisical diseases, but I believe God accepts them just as He accepts those with phisical problems. I hope this isn't why Jac was taken off this board, he has written helpful posts on here.

FYI, Jac was not taken off the board. He chose to leave of his own free will. He is welcome to come back any time he wishes.

[sinnerbybirth]

He chose to leave of his own free will. He is welcome to come back any time he wishes.

Hey Byblos, This seems to be a popular topic now a days. Sorry for the pun.

[Byblos]

He chose to leave of his own free will. He is welcome to come back any time he wishes.

Hey Byblos, This seems to be a popular topic now a days. Sorry for the pun.

Lol, yes. I wonder if I subconsciously meant it as a pun.