Original Sin / Sinners by Birth or Not

[cslewislover]

I know that CS Lewis did not adhere to the doctrine of Total Depravity, and I liked what I had read about his reasoning, but I don't remember it now so I can't relay it. I could look it up and post on it, however. Part of my own reasoning is that God says we are without excuse in recognizing Him and coming to Him. This puts responsibility on our side, at least a certain level of responsibility. I think that if we were totally depraved, we could not be held responsible at all. If one just looks at our condition, that we're all condemned, I think that's different. I don't think it should refer to depravity, but rebellion.

[jlay]

I see what you are saying. I was always a bit confused at the concept of total depravity. It is afterall a man made concept to understand the position of mankind in relation to God. It is interesting that Arminianism and Calvanism can have very different views of TD. Have you ever heard the TOTAL DEPRAVITY (capital letters) verses total depravity (lower case letters) argument?

Each of us can think of times where we recognized injustice and it brought up a sense of justice within us. Even before we were saved.

[Kristoffer]

I know that CS Lewis did not adhere to the doctrine of Total Depravity, and I liked what I had read about his reasoning, but I don't remember it now so I can't relay it. I could look it up and post on it, however. Part of my own reasoning is that God says we are without excuse in recognizing Him and coming to Him. This puts responsibility on our side, at least a certain level of responsibility. I think that if we were totally depraved, we could not be held responsible at all. If one just looks at our condition, that we're all condemned, I think that's different. I don't think it should refer to depravity, but rebellion.

His response to that is fine, i have read that response to the doctrine and find it acceptable. But how do you know rebellion is a bad thing? What if we were to rebel against evil leaders? Evil is not good because someone can label it good.

[B. W.]

I know that CS Lewis did not adhere to the doctrine of Total Depravity, and I liked what I had read about his reasoning, but I don't remember it now so I can't relay it. I could look it up and post on it, however. Part of my own reasoning is that God says we are without excuse in recognizing Him and coming to Him. This puts responsibility on our side, at least a certain level of responsibility. I think that if we were totally depraved, we could not be held responsible at all. If one just looks at our condition, that we're all condemned, I think that's different. I don't think it should refer to depravity, but rebellion.

His response to that is fine, i have read that response to the doctrine and find it acceptable. But how do you know rebellion is a bad thing? What if we were to rebel against evil leaders? Evil is not good because someone can label it good.

Rebellion - offers no other choice other than Revolution

Rebellion offers only one way to go or rule - by rebellion. When the rebellious / revolutionary gains control they have to be overthrown themselves. Rebellion offers no peace, no real hope, no stability, etc and etc, look at war for example.

I watch my 1.6 year old grandniece and thank God for peace we have and pray that the rebellious do not take it away. The results of the revolution / rebellion are to create chaos, ruin, death, destruction of all that is good — and replace it with only one way to go where the only choice is to feed rebellion to keep the revolution alive.

If you are up on politics — you may understand a bit more the politics of the left…
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[Kristoffer]

Very much so the left, thats pretty much most of my countries political spectrum, even the far right here is like your "left". But what you really notice is the polotic of politicians backstabbing eachother to get power.

[zoegirl]

I was just thinking about some of the books I have read. Many times it is proposed that the source of most evil is that children are taught.

The Lord of the Flies is an interesting read for that. Very direct theme about the direction children will take in the natural state. Spooky book but rather accurate.

[Kristoffer]

God's and Satan's.

How do you know which is a liar or lie? How do you know those are the two camps? What if the 2 camps are "just a concept" and "humanity" and why dose whisky make typing requirer so much effort/

[Kurieuo]

God's and Satan's.

How do you know which is a liar or lie? How do you know those are the two camps? What if the 2 camps are "just a concept" and "humanity" and why dose whisky make typing requirer so much effort/

I am working within the framework of Christian theology, so this is revealed in Scripture.