Questions about a former apologist turned atheist...

[Kurieuo]

Merely that a biblical faith is not a blind faith.

I think you missed my point, as I still don't understand yours relative to what I posted.

I got your point, but I think the passage you allude to is not relevant to what I stated. Please take the time to present your argument more fully to me if you think otherwise, then I will respond in turn.

[jlay]

My secondary comments were about an active faith. Like I said,

but a rebuke for the lack of faith walking we see today.

This was a statement to the beleiver, not the lost. Why? Well this guy alleges to have been a genuine believer. Although, how someone can alledge to have genuine faith in something they are now claiming is fake is beyond me. So, I never used the word, 'blind,' and am still unclear just what you are saying, or where you take exception to my comments..

Regarding conversion, there is a point where a person must place their trust in the promises of God. A Christian is not just a person who got the correct amount of apologetics info. (I was saved prior to having any of that knowledge) A Christian is one who has trusted Christ. No amount of apologetics info can make one ascend to the belief that Jesus was the Son of God who rose from the grave.

The words we live by faith not by sight, would indicate that we will be blind (to use the term losely)to certain things to operate in the arena of faith. That if we judge by human standards we will see things much differently than God. That is how the George Mueller's of the world experienced the provisional hand of God. If a Christian really wants a relationship with the Lord then they must take blind (again losely) steps of faith and trust the Lord in their life. It isn't about just becoming a nicer person, or a more schollarly Christain. It isn't about becoming a monk and hiding out from the world. It is about walking in the things which God prepared for us beforehand, and becoming a vessel in which God will flow through you and pour out your life for your world.

You said,

And it is by seeing that a biblical faith desired by God happens.

And I said, what did Jesus say to them after Thomas' encounter. Blessed are who?

[smiley]

Smiley, sure, everyone can have feelings about their faith. But you are dismissing the work of the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying that He is a feeling that can be explained, because I don't see how it could be done. Yet, it could very easily get to the point where a person, in order to feel that they are of the true religion, would need to exhibit something to show it - like speaking in tongues! No, you don't have to exhibit something for other men to see, but I do think a person can have (and should have) some sort of encounter with God to let them know they are His child.

Elaborate. What do they need to exhibit? Speaking in tongues? Can you speak in "tongues"? Most Christians cannot.

Encountering God? What exactly do you mean? Feeling God's presence? Seeing visions of Jesus Christ? Because other religions have precisely the same things (except they see visions of their own deities).

I very much believe this, and that this is biblical, otherwise it could very well seem that is simply our decision (it is our decision, but God calls us with His spirit - He is involved). As for feelings like that, supposedly, within other religions, who is to say that they aren't God?

Well, first of all, the Christian God hates when people worship false gods. This is obvious from both the Old and the New Testament. So why would He make them "feel" His presence when they worship a man-made statue or demons disguised as the Creator God? Based on the Bible, I would say, rather than praise them for it, He would probably burst into anger and destroy the statue, and perhaps even punish them for it.

Furthermore, if you are correct, then how do you know that Christianity is true? If God makes people of all religions feel His presence when they worship false gods, then how do you know that you aren't worshiping a false god?

I'm not saying that all religions are true, either, but all humans have the capacity to turn to the true God. If someone does that within the context of another religion - because that is all they know - then that person can be saved.

I am sorry, but this is just unbiblical speculation. You don't get saved by "feeling" God, you get saved by trusting Jesus.

[jlay]

As for feelings like that, supposedly, within other religions, who is to say that they aren't God? I'm not saying that all religions are true, either, but all humans have the capacity to turn to the true God. If someone does that within the context of another religion - because that is all they know - then that person can be saved.

I'm not sure what to say to this.

[Human]

As for feelings like that, supposedly, within other religions, who is to say that they aren't God? I'm not saying that all religions are true, either, but all humans have the capacity to turn to the true God. If someone does that within the context of another religion - because that is all they know - then that person can be saved.

So like trusting Jesus Christ and believing in Him but also worshiping false deities?

[cubeus19]

Ok, it seems to me that this discussion sort of ties in well with my "communication with God" thread. In saying that there is alot of confusion and ambiguity to the idea of feelings and other experiences like dreams, visions, and so forth and seeing whether or not they are from God. It appears to me that since any follower of any religion (even atheists and agnostics) can have these type of experiences, it seems like for Christians to be sure that what they experience is from God there almost needs to be either a difference or some kind of signal or stamp of approval to know if it is indeed from God. But as far as I know, that signal or stamp of approval doesn't happen. I guess I would be all out of answers and ideas to this dilemia if it wasn't for this idea. And that idea being that a Christian can only be justified or confident in thinking that their experience was from God if and only if, the message they got or the feeling they got lines up with the Bible or solid Christian doctrine. And even then you still couldn't know for sure since our immagination can create these feelings and experiences, but at the very least we won't be led into sin or error if we make sure our experiences and spiritual feelings do indeed line up with solid Christian doctrine that's found in the scriptures. That's about the only good answer I can come up with, let me know if there is anything that I could add or subtract from this idea.