Is Pres. Obama still a Muslim?

[August]

So Bart, do you have conclusive proof that he was born in the USA?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you .....

Ah, so you work for him...?

[Canuckster1127]

Nope. Not directly anyway.

The whole birther's thing is quite a stretch. I didn't vote for Obama and I have real concerns about many of his policies. That doesn't change the fact that he's the POTUS and entitled to at least a modicum of respect and further, the needs of the nation as a whole as opposed to my particular political party (or at least the one I used to belong to, I'm an independent now) take precedent to where I hope that he's effective in his leadership and that his policies and actions have the best impact for our Nation.

I really think the Republican Party has lost sight of that and has moved obstructionism to the point where they're more concerned about immediate election outcomes and failing in their constitutional responsibility to promote the needs of that country over their own political ambitions.

The Democrats are not much better.

I'm pretty much at the "a pox on both their houses" stage and thinking that the dismantaling of the 2 party system we have that appears to serve corporate interests over the needs of the nation as a whole, would probably be a good thing. The whole Tea Party movement may at least serve to break up the Republican Party and move toward that end, and in a backhanded way, I hope it has that impact, even though I don't identify entirely with it.

[RickD]

Straight from the as*es, I mean horse's mouth:http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/28 ... by-choice/

telling residents in New Mexico that he is a "Christian by choice" who came to religion later in life after being inspired by the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Sounds like a genuine christian to me.

[B. W.]

Straight from the as*es, I mean horse's mouth:http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/28 ... by-choice/

telling residents in New Mexico that he is a "Christian by choice" who came to religion later in life after being inspired by the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Sounds like a genuine christian to me.

Obama stated on several occasions that is own personal salvation rested solely upon the collective salvation of the nation. Most recently in July 2010 – I think on 7/13…

Collective salvation simply means that salvation for the individual is entirely dependent on salvation for the collective through economic and social justice. Hence, you are saved by your works in service to the state for the state to implement all aspects of economic redistribution of wealth meaning that the rich countries must necessarily step down in all areas of lifestyle and living so that poor nations rise. Social Justice within a country makes sure all the have not’s get all what all the haves have, that is till there are no more haves to get anything from - then who?

In other words, the USA must surrender all its wealth to poor countries governments to redistribute. Interestingly, it is these very governments that keep the people poor and the ruling oligarchy rich and have no intent to pass on the wealth. Pakistan exemplifies this as do many African nations that receives large sums of US tax payer money; they do not spread the wealth around.

Basically this is a works based salvation designed by neo Marxist to use religion (primarily Christianity) to justify, promote neo-Marxist ideology in order ascend in power, gain absolute power, so only a ruling oligarchy now have their self interest met. Evil often comes in the guise as an angel of light. Collective salvation is a works based salvation. Good works meaning – give all to government and government, the state, world governing body will collectively save you and usher in peace, safety in our time.

The bible says that a person’s salvation rest upon Jesus Christ alone, not by collective salvation.

So when I hear Obama say that his own personal salvation rest upon collective salvation, no, in my opinion, for what it is worth, he is not a Christian but rather a opportunist (ends justify the means kind of leftist guy) using Christian themes to implement and justify neo-Marxism’ goal of creating a Borg Collective on earth.
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[Canuckster1127]

Just out of interest, since we appear to have some willingness here to declare on Obama's Christianity and personal salvation, does anyone want to take a stab at providing a list of all previous Presidents and the conventional wisdom of their contemporary observers as to the state of their personal salvation?

(and I'm only partly tongue in cheek here .... based on what I've seen it appears Obama's definition of Christian is considerably broader than most evangelicals ... passing judgement upon political figure's and particularly opposing party leaders is a sport as old as time.)

I'll start the ball rolling, Thomas Jefferson was portrayed in what was probably the nastiest presidential campaign in history, as an atheist by his political opponents in 1800 and accused of (which was confirmed by DNA in the last decade) cohabiting with his slave Sally Hemings (the half-sister of his deceased wife). Jefferson belonged to no formal church and in his personal correspondance (especially with John Adams who was his opponent in 1800 and remarkably became his close friend later in life, demonstrated a point of view that was highly skeptical of the deity of Christ while affirming his high standing as a moral teacher. He was at best by the definition of his day, a unitarian and certainly at times earlier in life demonstrated elements of deism, which appear to have moderated as he grew older.

Or .... we could leave it in God's hands unless we believe that the US is a theocrasy and that this is a key element of how we as Christians should vote that supercedes everything else relative to economic and social issues.

[B. W.]

Just out of interest, since we appear to have some willingness here to declare on Obama's Christianity and personal salvation, does anyone want to take a stab at providing a list of all previous Presidents and the conventional wisdom of their contemporary observers as to the state of their personal salvation?

(and I'm only partly tongue in cheek here .... based on what I've seen it appears Obama's definition of Christian is considerably broader than most evangelicals ... passing judgement upon political figure's and particularly opposing party leaders is a sport as old as time.)

I'll start the ball rolling, Thomas Jefferson was portrayed in what was probably the nastiest presidential campaign in history, as an atheist by his political opponents in 1800 and accused of (which was confirmed by DNA in the last decade) cohabiting with his slave Sally Hemings (the half-sister of his deceased wife). Jefferson belonged to no formal church and in his personal correspondance (especially with John Adams who was his opponent in 1800 and remarkably became his close friend later in life, demonstrated a point of view that was highly skeptical of the deity of Christ while affirming his high standing as a moral teacher. He was at best by the definition of his day, a unitarian and certainly at times earlier in life demonstrated elements of deism, which appear to have moderated as he grew older.

Or .... we could leave it in God's hands unless we believe that the US is a theocrasy and that this is a key element of how we as Christians should vote that supercedes everything else relative to economic and social issues.

As long as a person can perform the duties of President, it does not matter if his/her faith is in atheism or God. However, when a President is more interested in saving himself through collective salvation by fundamentally transforming America, then we have a problem. Or trying to force - forced conversions to a particular religious system, we have a problem.

We have had some colorful characters as Presidents like Jackson, Polk, Taft, Teddy Roosevelt, Kennedy, Cater, Johnson, and even one who gave cigars a bad rap…
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[BavarianWheels]

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I'd rather have an "honest" Atheist president over an "honest" Christian president...and almost anything over the secretive and deceptive liar and fake we have now in the O val office. (I think I've said this already)
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[zoegirl]

For me, I can completely agree that other presidents were probably not Christian either, but this is a case of having sympathies that might compromise national security coupled with inexperience and naivety.

[ryeguy123]

he is not a muslim doesent act like one his father was a muslim who converted to atheism

[DannyM]

I receive regular emails updating me of D'Souza's activities. If this has already been posted then forgive me.

**************************

The Roots of Obama's Rage

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****President Obama has been called many things: a socialist, a radical fellow traveler, a Chicago machine politician, a prince of the civil rights movement, a virtual second coming of Christ, and even a covert Muslim.

But as I reveal in my new book, The Roots of Obama's Rage, these labels merely slap our own preconceived notions on Barack Obama.

So who is the real Obama—and why is he hell-bent on seeing America fail?

The real Obama is a man shaped by experiences far different from those of most Americans—and he is a much stranger, more determined, and exponentially more dangerous a man than you ever imagined.

He isn't motivated by civil rights struggles, socialist ideals, or the tenets of Islam, but rather a deep-seated hatred of America and the West—a rage he inherited from his African father's radical anti-colonialist ideology.

As The Roots of Obama's Rage shows, it is this inherited anti-colonialist ideology and enmity for the United States that is fueling Obama to systematically destroy our nation's wealth, ambition, influence, and power.

How do I know this?

Because Obama says so himself.

As I write in The Roots of Obama's Rage:

"Reflect for a moment on the title of President Obama's book: it's not Dreams of My Father but rather Dreams from My Father. And what are those dreams? They are of a world where the United States and the West are compelled to pay for the alleged crimes of colonialism and neocolonial capitalism, where the poor and the Third World finally get to shake down the wealth and the power of the West."

I promise after reading The Roots of Obama's Rage, you'll never see Obama the same way again. I truly believe this is the only book that fully explains—and even predicts—Obama's actions, big and small.

So please, order your copy today, because if we want to understand Obama's actions here and abroad, we have to understand who Obama really is, not who we want him to be.****

*************************************************************

Hope this helps.

[B. W.]

Add to that the ideas from Liberation Theology, which is anti-colonialism.

Here is the kicker: The poor countries governments do not pass the wealth of their own countries down, nor help the poor - Especially the socialist ones. So, according to Obama, the US must pay for the crimes of the world and voluntarily step down and pay these corrupt governments to redistribute the wealth of the west too in order to appease social and economic Justice ,

Again, if Obama understood that true biblical Christianity teaches that all bound to a sin nature and all need saved,, he would see that such a pipe dream as his anti-colonial liberation theology cannot work due to the individual human condition of sin.

Since Obama’s stated that his individual salvation is due/ contingent upon the collective salvation – He is a very dangerous man to have as President. He ran for President chanting a different tune and people bought a lie, hearing his words they interpreted these to mean something other than what he meant. This is more than dishonest but shows he is sold up to the Saul Alinsky/ Cloward and Piven – the ends justify the means political neo-Marxist philosophy.

Get out and vote this November however your conscience dictates. Vote for whomever. Realize that Our nation is at a historical crossroads and this is no game...

After the rich, anti-marxists, and conservatives have been eliminated and only the rich business teams who formed their coalition with their own business monopolies with govt. sanction: They’ll go after you next…

Look at the CA governs race. On national TV an illegal immigrant admits to committing a felony crime of stealing a social security number: The left does not care about illegal immigrants or the poor, only to use them as pans to take power away so that only they have all the power.
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[Seraph]

I side with Canuckster and Gman on this, I do not think Obama is a closet Muslim. Being born to a Muslim father does not make one Muslim by default. A person's relationship with God or whether or not they are Christian is the person's choice alone, regardless of their heritage. Obama has said multiple times that he is Christian today and I've never seen any evidence to believe otherwise other than seeing person after person call him one, apparently believing this stance to be self-evident. At this point, I think many opponents of Obama will make up just about any ad hominem about him to try and discredit him, whether he is Muslim, Socialist, Nazi, whatever. I've seen the same people say that he is a closet Muslim one moment, then say he belonged to a Christian cult that says "God damn America" the next. When one can't stick to one story, it says a lot about their intentions.

I also get flustered when people freely call him a Marxist or a Socialist because I think people are applying a slippery slope fallacy. When one impliments a policy or action that somewhat resembles an ideology, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be taken to extremes in the near future. In this case, just because Obama has implemented some policies that involve some wealth redistribution, it doesn't mean he has an agenda to turn America into an opressive communistic dystopia.

And as for people demanding evidence that Obama was born in the USA:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html

I would consider FactCheck to be a fairly non-partisan and non-biased source and they've held his actual birth certificate with the raised seal and everything. Obama really could not provide any more evidence that he was born in the USA. People who still claim that he was born in Kenya will not be convinced, no matter what evidence they are presented with. It's perfectly fine to disagree with a President's policies, but don't cling to false stories to try and demonize him as much as possible if you do.