flu shot

[RickD]

Zoe, if you're still there, I'll try to explain the alkaline diet/lifestyle as simply as I can. I think I haven't really told you what it means. I've been too vague, and thrown in a bad reference(Dr. Young's) website. So, here it goes in theory: God created humans with the need to replenish ourselves, and eat the right foods to keep ourselves healthy. The best food that God created for us to eat is vegetables, and fruits. Vegetables especially are very alkalizing to the human body. Chemicals, hormones, pesticides, preservatives that we ingest are acidic to the body. The blood needs to stay in its ph range. The body is designed to keep the blood at its slightly alkaline level(ph 7.365) at all costs. Any excess acids in the blood are released from the body by the only 4 ways it can.(respiration, defecation, urination, perspiration) When the blood has too many acids that can't be released by those 4 methods, the acids are deposited in the tissues. That's where things start to go wrong. I believe that the ancient people lived to be hundreds of years old because they ate primarily vegetables, and fruits, and didn't have the chemicals that we have from man-made pollution to our water, processed foods, etc. All an alkaline diet is is healthy hopefully organic, raw foods that God has designed especially for our health. We need to keep our bodies at an alkaline level to keep it well. Natural, organic foods will give the body what it needs to heal itself. God designed it that way. That's alkalizing in a nutshell. I hope I helped rid the confusion that I started before.

[zoegirl]

Been a tough end of the week and haven't bene able to devote a good amount of time.

Let me ask you this. Is there what I would consider a reputable source that puts their weight behind this diet? For instance, any evidence that the acid is deposited in the tissues....in all of my anatomy and phys books that I have ever read, there has never been any method mentioned of acid/bade homeostatic mechanisms that lead to this. Any physiological references that support this? Any reference needs to have good data behind it, not anecdotal or something such as Dr. Young.

I will do more research on this...but bottom line, while eating healthy is certainly a valid goal...it does NOT prevent nor cure IBD's such as Crohn's or Colitis. And a lack of one does not cause them.

[zoegirl]

For instance, those other two sites don't even offer background research or authors or even hard data to support their claims. I want to see good background, physiological mechanisms, and good research.

[zoegirl]

For a good review of "ionized" or "alklaline" water

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

from a simple chemistry perspective.

[RickD]

For instance, those other two sites don't even offer background research or authors or even hard data to support their claims. I want to see good background, physiological mechanisms, and good research.

Zoe, I honestly don't know of any websites that might convince you by what you're looking for. Remember, in order for something to get funding for scientific research, the people funding have to have a reason to fund it. You're not going to see a pharm. company do funding for healthy diet research, because an honest study would hurt their cause. If you're really interested, Japan may have done some scientific research that you could find. They are much more open to natural remedies then we are in the west.

[RickD]

For a good review of "ionized" or "alklaline" water

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

from a simple chemistry perspective.

Zoe, I read that website for the first time last year. It is full of many misleading statements. I will take the time to review it again for you, and point out where the author is wrong. It may take a while because I'm working all day today. I'll at least be able to tell you where he's wrong from my experience with my water machine. I've had my machine for 1 1/2 years, so I've probably been drinking enough to give you a realistic assessment. I wonder if the author actually took the time to drink alkaline water, so he could do a real scientific study about its claims?

[zoegirl]

NOt all funding is from pharma companies, Rick! Plenty of funding comes from government funding, university research. Shoot, there are plenty of companies that are willing to develop studies for companies. For instance, I would be willing to bet that they lovely Dr. and Mrs Young are extremely rich...they could easily fund reserach themselves and pay companies themselves. I would be very, very, curious to see their Tax info.

Again, if we really want to talk about greed, the pharma companies are not the only ones dealing in greed. Shoot, at least there IS a regulatory company involved in examining what they are doing, which is laughable that people are willing to claim all sort of conspiracy to defraud, greed, and hurt people and yet there are COMPLETELY willing to trust their health and their wallet to completely unverified, completely unregulated companies and claims.

Even so, none of the websites you have provided even fulfill basic good hard data. None of this would be hard to prove. In fact, none of them even provide references or the background of their claims.

Look, since much of this is plain physiology, you should be able to do a google scholar on alkaline diet (tried it), alkaline foods (yes, diets high in veggies and cruciferous vegetables would be alklaine/ash diets). What I am looking for is evidence that
1) the ionization of the water does what it claims to do (other than anecdotal evidence, notoriously full of placebo errors and flawed conclusions)
2) that basic fluids will influence the body chemistry in the way that they websites claim
3) that there is an immune relationship....

Here is a fundamental idea...IF these worked so well, IF these machines were so great at what they were doing....then these pharma companies are ridiculously STUPID for not cashing in on these machines, these products!! Amazing! All of these exec's not tripping over each other to get in on this money.

Instead, they waste MILLIONS upon millions of dollars on medical research on thousands of potential drugs simply to get some profit on the very few drugs that work. Huh...someone, let's inform them of this opportunity! Somewhere, some CEO will smack his head in amazement at their stupidity!!

[RickD]

NOt all funding is from pharma companies, Rick! Plenty of funding comes from government funding,

I didn't say that all funding is from pharm companies. I just used it as one example. I realize that funding also comes from the govt. Imo the govt. is in bed with pharm companies. All one has to do is look at who is doing the funding to see what their reason is for funding.

Again, if we really want to talk about greed, the pharma companies are not the only ones dealing in greed. Shoot, at least there IS a regulatory company involved in examining what they are doing, which is laughable that people are willing to claim all sort of conspiracy to defraud, greed, and hurt people and yet there are COMPLETELY willing to trust their health and their wallet to completely unverified, completely unregulated companies and claims

Of course pharm companies aren't the only ones who are greedy. We know that the love of money can do that to people. If people are willing to trust their health and wallet to unregulated claims and companies, then that's their business. Just like the people who are willing to entrust their health and wallet to drug companies who's product does nothing but possibly help with the symptoms, but do nothing for the problem itself.

Look, since much of this is plain physiology, you should be able to do a google scholar on alkaline diet (tried it), alkaline foods (yes, diets high in veggies and cruciferous vegetables would be alklaine/ash diets). What I am looking for is evidence that
1) the ionization of the water does what it claims to do (other than anecdotal evidence, notoriously full of placebo errors and flawed conclusions)
2) that basic fluids will influence the body chemistry in the way that they websites claim
3) that there is an immune relationship....

1) I'm not sure what you're reading that the water claims to do. If you have specific claims, then I may be able to address them individually. 2)I know what the water does for me. It's not a miracle cure for everything. It has its benefits. It HAS helped me. 3) Alkaline water is 1 part of what an alkaline diet can do. It's not a cure-all. For someone like me who has a horrible diet, it has helped me.

Here is a fundamental idea...IF these worked so well, IF these machines were so great at what they were doing....then these pharma companies are ridiculously STUPID for not cashing in on these machines, these products!! Amazing! All of these exec's not tripping over each other to get in on this money.

Dr. Young has promoted alkaline water in the past, and I recently noticed that he has developed his own machine. So at least one greedy Dr. is smart enough to cash in on the idea.

Instead, they waste MILLIONS upon millions of dollars on medical research on thousands of potential drugs simply to get some profit on the very few drugs that work. Huh...someone, let's inform them of this opportunity! Somewhere, some CEO will smack his head in amazement at their stupidity!!

Some profit?!?! Do you realize how much money big pharm. companies make? Their profit is HUGE! Zoe, it's obvious you have no interest in this, so I won't waste my time trying to show you why I believe that God created our bodies to be able to heal themselves with proper nutrition. And why this works for us. And why it's very simple to understand how it works. If it weren't so simple, my simple mind wouldn't be able to understand it. Zoe, when researching all sides of a subject, we need to look at the reason why someone is promoting their side of the issue. I have no financial motivation in telling you what I believe. I don't sell water machines. I don't profit from selling nutritional supplements. I've just had a sincere desire to study this since my Dad was diagnosed with cancer last year. His cancer was a condition that historically had shown no positive results from the typical chemo or radiation treatments. My Mom and I were looking for an alternative treatment to help him. My Mom unfortunately got taken in by a daughter of a friend who sold a product called Reliv. She would have done anything to help my Dad. I truly believe that a diet of alkaline foods would help you. What haven't you tried to help your condition? It's not rocket science. We put bad things into our body, and bad things happen. We eat the food with the most nutrients(raw vegetables for example), and our bodies can have what they need to stay healthy. It's not about buying expensive supplements, or taking $1000 retreats to some Dr.'s mansion. Alkaline eating is about eating the right foods that God created for us to keep our bodies healthy. Water is just one of those things that our body needs to stay healthy. Why would I tell you that the water from my machine has helped me? What is my motive behind that? If I got scammed by the water machine company, I would either tell you that I got scammed, or not even mention the water in the first place because of embarrassment from being scammed. The water from the machine isn't a scam. Some companies that sell their machines via MLM are a scam imo. But that doesn't mean their machines don't work, just that their sales practices are suspect. All I ask, is that if you're serious about your health, pray about this. If you feel that God is leading you in this direction, I'm here to answer any questions you have. If you feel that this is all a bunch of hooey, and God is not leading you in this direction, I won't bother you anymore.

[Canuckster1127]

RickD,

I think Zoe's request is reasonable. Provide documented peer reviewed proof of the claims being proferred. All I've seen so far is a claim of collaboration and conspiracies, now between the government and pharmacuetical companies. There's no shortage of independent organizations, who could take up these issues as well. There's no question in my mind that nutrition and diet are grossly underestimated within the US as a basis for addressing our health issues. Sadly, we are more reactive than proactive. That said however, the snake-oil traveling salesmen that marked previous generations have simply become more high tech but the basic methodology remains the same. "God's leading" is one thing. All Zoe has asked for is some actual research from credible, independent sources to collaborate the claims being made. It's a reasonable request. The answer for that is either to provide it or explain why it's not available. So far, all I've seen provided is a lot of rationalizing as to why pharmacies (and now the government) are desparate to keep this knowlege from coming out. I've worked with the Government before. Believe me, you're giving them far too much credit in terms of their ability to keep such information contained.

[RickD]

RickD,

I think Zoe's request is reasonable. Provide documented peer reviewed proof of the claims being proferred. All I've seen so far is a claim of collaboration and conspiracies, now between the government and pharmacuetical companies. There's no shortage of independent organizations, who could take up these issues as well. There's no question in my mind that nutrition and diet are grossly underestimated within the US as a basis for addressing our health issues. Sadly, we are more reactive than proactive. That said however, the snake-oil traveling salesmen that marked previous generations have simply become more high tech but the basic methodology remains the same. "God's leading" is one thing. All Zoe has asked for is some actual research from credible, independent sources to collaborate the claims being made. It's a reasonable request. The answer for that is either to provide it or explain why it's not available. So far, all I've seen provided is a lot of rationalizing as to why pharmacies (and now the government) are desparate to keep this knowlege from coming out. I've worked with the Government before. Believe me, you're giving them far too much credit in terms of their ability to keep such information contained.

Bart, as I posted in the last post I made, If someone has a specific claim that is made, I'll try to address it. There are no doubt claims that are being made that are wrong. If you, or Zoe have a specific claim, then I'll try my best to address it on an individual basis. The salesman that sold my Mom her overpriced water machine has been taught by his company many misleading, and outright lies just to sell the machines. So, I know that some people claim things that aren't true. I just can't give you a generic answer for all the claims, because some are real, and some aren't.

Believe me, you're giving them far too much credit in terms of their ability to keep such information contained.

Bart, I work for the government now. What difference does that make? I'm not giving them any credit. I'm not the first person who has said that the government has been in bed with companies that make them money. This isn't a new concept in our government. Look who funds the election of certain politicians. All the higher level politicians are beholden to someone. This isn't some ludicrous conspiracy movie.

[RickD]

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for:http://www.e-waterionizers.com/chem1_snake_oil.html#top this is actually a very informative site that explains water ionizers and how they work. As well as other topics.

[zoegirl]

I'm certainly not denying that good nutrition is a key to maintain good health. But good nutrition ALONE is not going to keep people from getting sick. Not to mention that this begs the question of what good nutrition is.

I did some reserach myself and the ONLY evidence of pH on body chemistry is on bone density....HOWEVER, replenishing Calcium intakes through dairy/vegetables, and calcium supplements are far cheaper than any machine.

I am certainly not denying that there is greed in pharmaceutical companies, in fact, that is what the FDA is for. For every medicine that is placed on the market that have been many, many that have not worked. Yes, they make billions in profit, they also spend, millions and millions in research. And if the patent restrictions are decreased even more, they will make even less...which will significantly affect any incentive to do research (a big worry with the lifting of patent timelines.

I repeat, if Dr. Young and his other supporters truly wanted to show validity to their products, it would be a simple matter of funding their own research. I would guess from the products listed on his webpage, he has a ridiculously high profit margin (consider, no research goes into the products and all of the ingredients are ingredients that anyone can buy from bulk chemical warehouses...bicarbonate, potassium hydroxide, salt, sea salt....ridiculously cheap chemicals that are sold ridiculously high amounts

With regards to your link, I have found some inaccuracies (not to mention that I don't exactly trust their own website...any references outside their own statements?)

Dr Lower: "Pure water can never be alkaline or acidic, nor can it be made so by electrolysis....pure water can be considered to be ion-free, as evidenced by the fact that it will not conduct an electric current.""

Not true - test for yourself. Tap water and any natural water does conduct electricity.

ummm...that is the chemists point...PURE water does not...TAP water is not PURE water.

Dr Lower: "Groundwaters containing metal ions such as calcium and magnesium can be rendered slightly alkaline by electrolysis, but after it hits the highly acidic gastric fluid in the stomach, its alkalinity is gone" "

This is true for any tap water, that's how Water Ionizers work in 99% of household water supplies. The second point is misleading; the stomach produces gastric juices on demand depending on the food you eat. However, even if the slight alkalinity is cancelled out, you still get clean drinking water with bio-active ionic alkaline minerals. Other measurable features things like low ORP and low NMR and so on are a plus.

Okay, here the site is mixing up the claims. Is an ionizer simply a purifier? OR is it making alkaline pH? They essentially admit here that the acid in the stomach neutralizes the alkalinity...in fact, from good old negative feedback loops, if the pH increases too much , the stomach proton pumps can increase their activity, bringing the pH down lower.

Dr Lower: "The claims about the health benefits of drinking alkaline water are not supported by credible scientific evidence" "

This judgment depends on what one labels credible. Alkaline water is just tap water with the poisons taken out of it and reduced by mild electrolysis so that the water is in a pure natural form, very similar to high altitude mineral spring water. I think that any 'science' that says that water without poisons does not have any health benefit is questionable. These sites (of the late Dr Batmangheldj) look at some proven health benefits of water: watercure and watercure2.

Again, they are obfuscating...are they wanting water without toxins (which plenty of good water purifiers can do) or alkaline water? The original source (that I referenced NEVER claimed that water without poisons are without health benefit and this is a rather poor defense for their system.

but you should drink water first thing in the morning and in-between meals, not during or after meals to get the most benefits. When the stomach is empty, the water or freshly squeezed juices will flow straight through, and not be significantly effected by the acid stomach pH.

Provide reference for this physiological statement

The actual pH (i.e. the measurable pH, 8-10 usually) is not the major benefit of this water - 'alkaline' is just a label used to describe the water, one of many labels.

huh, are they admitting this????!?!?!!?

You could call it natural water, pure of contaminants, or pure natural water, pure mineral water . If you analyze natural spring water from the Alps or better still Glacier water, you will find that it has all these properties: alkaline pH, high colloidal alkaline mineral content, low acid mineral content, low ORP (i.e. reduced), low NMR (small clusters).

Great. so drink filtered water with mineral supplements...cheaper...better still, simply eat better foods

What is important is what is contained in it. In health circles alkaline water is also called Microwater, Light water, Micro-clustered water, Reduced water, Electrolyzed Reduced Water (ERW), Ionic mineral water and even Miracle Water in this Japanese TV documentary

ah yes, miracle water....I always trust any sources that use "miracle" in their ads

. Our Clinical Studoes section lists abstracts from 100+ published papers that give an indication of the diverse uses of ionized water and terminology used.

Are they sources that are credible? Are they sources that show uses in nutrition?

When sensible nutritionists and naturopaths talk about an 'alkaline diet' they are NOT talking about neutralizing the acidity of the stomach acids that are needed to digest our food with chemicals! Alkaline foods like super greens and carrot juice are not particularly alkaline if you measure the pH with a meter, but they will have an overall slight alkalizing effect (or less acidifying effect) when you change your diet to eat more of them.

...yeah, because they are healthy foods...nothing mysterious here

An important point to note is that if you are eating live, alkaline foods like fruits, freshly squeezed juices

these are quite acidic in nature...

you should do so on an empty stomach to help the digestion process and get the most benefits (i.e. nutrients, enzymes and energy) from the food. This is less of an issue with alkaline water, since there is nothing to digest in water. JK]

yep, and it's neutralized immediately.


Most of this website is concerned with the fact that their water is free from toxins or poisons (hey, great, no one's debating that).

The issue still remains
1) Does this alkaline water/diet or lack of water/diet lead to disease or lack of disease
2) Does this water actually affect the physiology of the body (minus bone health) .
3) DOes it have any curative powers (other than simply increasing the overall health).

None of these would require a substantial amount of money to do, yet the companies who are making a large profit on these don't seem to be running to substantiate these claims.

At this point this is about more than simply the water. It is about willingness to trust unsubstantiated claims. At the least the average person wastes money (any standard water filter would produce nice pure water free from toxins). At the worst, these websites could make people refuse medication, refuse Doctor visits, treatments.

[zoegirl]

nice compilation of websites
http://www.snarlyboodle.com/kangen/

http://www.aces.edu/waterquality/articl ... MS3-HD.pdf

but yes, you are right....I will not be convinced in all likelihood. But you have not shown anything to convince me.

[RickD]

'm certainly not denying that good nutrition is a key to maintain good health. But good nutrition ALONE is not going to keep people from getting sick. Not to mention that this begs the question of what good nutrition is.

Foods that produce an alkaline ash in the body, according to alkaline diets.

I did some reserach myself and the ONLY evidence of pH on body chemistry is on bone density....HOWEVER, replenishing Calcium intakes through dairy/vegetables, and calcium supplements are far cheaper than any machine.

I figured out how much $ we spent on bottled water. The price of that would exceed the price of water from my machine. That's not to mention the other benefits we get besides cleaner water. So, even if the machines do nothing but filter the water, like critics say, it's still going to be cheaper than what we were paying for bottled water.

I repeat, if Dr. Young and his other supporters truly wanted to show validity to their products, it would be a simple matter of funding their own research.

If research was done that dr. Young funded, would you actually think it wasn't biased?

Dr Lower: "Pure water can never be alkaline or acidic, nor can it be made so by electrolysis....pure water can be considered to be ion-free, as evidenced by the fact that it will not conduct an electric current.""

Not true - test for yourself. Tap water and any natural water does conduct electricity.



ummm...that is the chemists point...PURE water does not...TAP water is not PURE water.

Not true. What I assume Dr Lower means is that pure distilled H2O is neutral, but chemically pure H2O does not exist in nature; even when you make distilled water it soon absorbs atmospheric gases and its pH becomes slightly acidic. Chemically pure H2O is not pure water, but an artificially created substance - it does not have any ions and cannot conduct electricity. But such water does not occur anywhere outside the chemistry lab, so this argument is not relevant to anything. The statement is totally misleading. Try telling an electrician that tap water doesn't conduct electricity, so you can pour it on electric power sockets!

Dr Lower: "Groundwaters containing metal ions such as calcium and magnesium can be rendered slightly alkaline by electrolysis, but after it hits the highly acidic gastric fluid in the stomach, its alkalinity is gone" "

This is true for any tap water, that's how Water Ionizers work in 99% of household water supplies. The second point is misleading; the stomach produces gastric juices on demand depending on the food you eat. However, even if the slight alkalinity is cancelled out, you still get clean drinking water with bio-active ionic alkaline minerals. Other measurable features things like low ORP and low NMR and so on are a plus.



Okay, here the site is mixing up the claims. Is an ionizer simply a purifier? OR is it making alkaline pH? They essentially admit here that the acid in the stomach neutralizes the alkalinity...in fact, from good old negative feedback loops, if the pH increases too much , the stomach proton pumps can increase their activity, bringing the pH down lower.

Distilled water cannot be made alkaline. The machine needs the minerals to make water alkaline.

Dr Lower: "The claims about the health benefits of drinking alkaline water are not supported by credible scientific evidence" "

This judgment depends on what one labels credible. Alkaline water is just tap water with the poisons taken out of it and reduced by mild electrolysis so that the water is in a pure natural form, very similar to high altitude mineral spring water. I think that any 'science' that says that water without poisons does not have any health benefit is questionable. These sites (of the late Dr Batmangheldj) look at some proven health benefits of water: watercure and watercure2.



Again, they are obfuscating...are they wanting water without toxins (which plenty of good water purifiers can do) or alkaline water? The original source (that I referenced NEVER claimed that water without poisons are without health benefit and this is a rather poor defense for their system.

My machine makes alkaline water. All I have to do is a simple test of the water, like testing the ph of pool water, to see if the machine is producing acidic, or alkaline water. I have tested the water, and still test it periodically. Anyone who claims that an alkaline water machine doesn't produce alkaline water is not a credible resource. It shows that they haven't tested a machine themselves to actually see if it works. If they're going to discredit something, don't you think they should actually test it first?

The actual pH (i.e. the measurable pH, 8-10 usually) is not the major benefit of this water - 'alkaline' is just a label used to describe the water, one of many labels.



huh, are they admitting this????!?!?!!?

Alkalinity is not the major benefit of the machine. We can buy alkaline bottled water from many health food stores. It's the de-toxifying affect the water has on our bodies that is more beneficial imo.(low orp).

You could call it natural water, pure of contaminants, or pure natural water, pure mineral water . If you analyze natural spring water from the Alps or better still Glacier water, you will find that it has all these properties: alkaline pH, high colloidal alkaline mineral content, low acid mineral content, low ORP (i.e. reduced), low NMR (small clusters).



Great. so drink filtered water with mineral supplements...cheaper...better still, simply eat better foods

Filtered water machines don't lower the orp of the water. And there is no way as of yet that we can bottle water and keep the orp low enough before selling the water. The orp goes higher when the water is left out. The alkalinity stays for a much longer period of time.

What is important is what is contained in it. In health circles alkaline water is also called Microwater, Light water, Micro-clustered water, Reduced water, Electrolyzed Reduced Water (ERW), Ionic mineral water and even Miracle Water in this Japanese TV documentary



ah yes, miracle water....I always trust any sources that use "miracle" in their ads

It's just a name used for marketing in Japan.

. Our Clinical Studoes section lists abstracts from 100+ published papers that give an indication of the diverse uses of ionized water and terminology used.



Are they sources that are credible? Are they sources that show uses in nutrition?

Don't know. have you checked them out?

An important point to note is that if you are eating live, alkaline foods like fruits, freshly squeezed juices

these are quite acidic in nature...

Some fruits, like lemons, actually produce an alkaline ash in the body.

The issue still remains
1) Does this alkaline water/diet or lack of water/diet lead to disease or lack of disease
2) Does this water actually affect the physiology of the body (minus bone health) .
3) DOes it have any curative powers (other than simply increasing the overall health).

1)Yes 2)Yes 3)Curative powers? Not anymore than eating the right foods has curative powers. The body will heal itself if given the right stuff.

None of these would require a substantial amount of money to do, yet the companies who are making a large profit on these don't seem to be running to substantiate these claims.

Water ionizers are fairly new to this country. If you're really interested in finding studies, you should concentrate your search to studies in Japan. Ionizers have been used there at least as far back as the 1980's.

At this point this is about more than simply the water. It is about willingness to trust unsubstantiated claims. At the least the average person wastes money (any standard water filter would produce nice pure water free from toxins). At the worst, these websites could make people refuse medication, refuse Doctor visits, treatments.

I didn't blindly trust anything without doing my own research first. When my Mom got her machine, I was very skeptical about it. I studied about it, then decided to try the water from her machine myself. The detoxifying effect was one thing that the water was supposed to do. I drank a 1 liter bottle of about 9-9.5 ph water. In a few hours I began to get a bad headache. the next day, I had flu-like symptoms, and was in bed most of the day. What the proponents of the water said would happen, happened. You really think the websites could "make" people refuse treatments for something that needs treatment?

[RickD]

Zoe here are some "credible" sights proving a that the resurrection is a hoaxhttp://www.answering-christianity.com/a ... n_hoax.htmandhttp://www.skepticfiles.org/religion/rf.htm Sounds like an open and shut case there too, huh. Where's the credible, scientific, double-blind studies that prove Christ resurrected from the dead? Zoe, you can prove to yourself that those alkaline water critics are wrong just as easily as you can prove these resurrection critics wrong, if you want to. Resurrection critics would not deny Christ if they have experienced Him in their lives. Alkaline water critics wouldn't deny the benefits of alkaline water if they had tried it themselves. I was a critic myself (of Alkaline water) before I tried it and saw for myself.