Marian Message

[CeT-To]

Well if i can remember right when i go to mass we pray a lot for people and for forgiveness, have holy communion, pray the prayer that Jesus taught, the priest talks about things like how we should not give into temptation, offer each other peace, priest reads some passages of the bible.

[Byblos]

Byblos, every Catholic mass I've been to is mostly about Mary, and rituals. There has only been a "hint" of the real Jesus. Masses, funerals, weddings, etc. My wife and her family have had the same experience as I did. There was no Biblical Gospel preached at any Mass they attended.

Sorry Rick, I'm not disputing what you're saying but whatever it is you and your wife attended is most certainly not a Catholic mass, it just can't be. Catholic mass starts with Christ, is about Christ and ends with Christ, as simple as that.

P.S. Mass is not for preaching the Gospel any way, it is for worshiping, and the object of that worship is most certainly not Mary.

Well if i can remember right when i go to mass we pray a lot for people and for forgiveness, have holy communion, pray the prayer that Jesus taught, the priest talks about things like how we should not give into temptation, offer each other peace, priest reads some passages of the bible.

Now that's a little more like it, no mention of Mary anywhere (and the Bible is read first then the priest's homily usually expounds on the subject).

[RickD]

RickD wrote:Byblos, every Catholic mass I've been to is mostly about Mary, and rituals. There has only been a "hint" of the real Jesus. Masses, funerals, weddings, etc. My wife and her family have had the same experience as I did. There was no Biblical Gospel preached at any Mass they attended.



Sorry Rick, I'm not disputing what you're saying but whatever it is you and your wife attended is most certainly not a Catholic mass, it just can't be. Catholic mass starts with Christ, is about Christ and ends with Christ, as simple as that.

P.S. Mass is not for preaching the Gospel any way, it is for worshiping, and the object of that worship is most certainly not Mary

Byblos, I didn't mean to say that my wife and I went to Catholic mass together. I grew up in Massachusetts, just south of Boston. The population was probably close to 50% Catholic. I've been to Catholic masses, Catholic weddings, Catholic funerals etc. My wife's family grew up Catholic. My wife didn't accept Christ until she was a young adult, and then left her Catholic upbringing. Her family never heard the Gospel the entire time they were in Catholic churches, while your Catholic experience may have been different. In my experience, and her family's experience, I do believe that one can be saved in spite of the Catholic Church's teachings. But, certainly not from what the Catholic church teaches. Like I said, it's just our experience. Yours may have been different. The thing I remember most about Catholic teachings I heard is never what Christ did as the ONLY way to be reconciled to God. I just remember what the Catholic churches told us we had to do ourselves.(works based for a POSSIBILITY not a guarantee of salvation.)

[Byblos]

Byblos, I didn't mean to say that my wife and I went to Catholic mass together. I grew up in Massachusetts, just south of Boston. The population was probably close to 50% Catholic. I've been to Catholic masses, Catholic weddings, Catholic funerals etc. My wife's family grew up Catholic. My wife didn't accept Christ until she was a young adult, and then left her Catholic upbringing. Her family never heard the Gospel the entire time they were in Catholic churches, while your Catholic experience may have been different. In my experience, and her family's experience, I do believe that one can be saved in spite of the Catholic Church's teachings. But, certainly not from what the Catholic church teaches. Like I said, it's just our experience. Yours may have been different. The thing I remember most about Catholic teachings I heard is never what Christ did as the ONLY way to be reconciled to God. I just remember what the Catholic churches told us we had to do ourselves.(works based for a POSSIBILITY not a guarantee of salvation.)

No guarantee of salvation and works based salvation are two entirely different things. Yes, the church teaches a moral assurance, not an absolute one (very biblical), and no the church does NOT teach a works-based salvation. If you (or your wife or her family) were conflating them or whoever you spoke with from the church was conflating them they are dead wrong. And it's not just my experience I am speaking of, it is official church doctrine and practice. In any case, my aim was never to debate, only to dispel misconceptions where possible.

[RickD]

Byblos, I didn't mean to say that my wife and I went to Catholic mass together. I grew up in Massachusetts, just south of Boston. The population was probably close to 50% Catholic. I've been to Catholic masses, Catholic weddings, Catholic funerals etc. My wife's family grew up Catholic. My wife didn't accept Christ until she was a young adult, and then left her Catholic upbringing. Her family never heard the Gospel the entire time they were in Catholic churches, while your Catholic experience may have been different. In my experience, and her family's experience, I do believe that one can be saved in spite of the Catholic Church's teachings. But, certainly not from what the Catholic church teaches. Like I said, it's just our experience. Yours may have been different. The thing I remember most about Catholic teachings I heard is never what Christ did as the ONLY way to be reconciled to God. I just remember what the Catholic churches told us we had to do ourselves.(works based for a POSSIBILITY not a guarantee of salvation.)

No guarantee of salvation and works based salvation are two entirely different things. Yes, the church teaches a moral assurance, not an absolute one (very biblical), and no the church does NOT teach a works-based salvation. If you (or your wife or her family) were conflating them or whoever you spoke with from the church was conflating them they are dead wrong. And it's not just my experience I am speaking of, it is official church doctrine and practice. In any case, my aim was never to debate, only to dispel misconceptions where possible.

Byblos, It wasn't my intent to argue either. I'm not sure what you mean by:"the church teaches a moral assurance, not an absolute one (very biblical)". If you are talking about if someone is truly saved with the Holy Spirit inside him as a deposit from God, then that someone possibly losing his salvation, I'm not going to argue that here. There are other threads about that. Perhaps if my wife and some in her family went to a catholic church such as yours, she wouldn't have left the catholic church. Who knows. I just know they were freed from the works based system they were brought up with, when someone outside the Catholic church preached the simple message of what God did through Christ. Their churches absolutely taught a works based salvation. I can't speak for all Catholic churches, just the ones we have been to. My experience is just my own. Nothing more, nothing less.