Wow nice you just generalized a whole group of people. Not all Jews think Jesus was terrible, frankly I find Christianity to be a better alternative than Paganism."Unless you are playing on words to give the idea that you think Jesus is good, you don't actually seem to be a Noahide. As from that Noahide page I referenced it seems clear that they certainly don't see Jesus as good, but rather a deceiver."
No I actually did and its terrible logic. You constantly accusing me of having bad reasoning, when you fail to see the alternative reason God would resurrect a heretic and that being to test the Jews (a test which majority have passed even when threatened with death). You also use the Gospels to support your point here and that's a clear example of circular reasoning because obviously I don't view the gospels as being highly accurate."Actually you didn't follow my logic. God commanded the Jews to put false prophets who lead people astray from God to death. The Jewish leaders followed this believing Jesus to be a blasphemer by breaking the Sabbath and "making himself equal with God." (John 5:18) Now the reason for why Christ was put to death, adds significance to his resurrection. God rose up someone who had been put to death for their teaching. Therefore God justified Christ by raising Him up! It's that simple. Now you can deny it all you like, that's your perogative, but the statements (and logic) within my argument is far from flawed. Simply saying it is does not make it so. You have to do a lot more if you're going to convince me (and no doubt others here) that there is anything wrong with what I say about God justifying Christ by the resurrection."
Again here you go insulting and being a hypocrite. You use circular reasoning constantly everytime you use the NT to support your case because you assume your debater values that source. This is a debate if Jesus is the JEWISH messiah or haMoshiach, not the CHRISTIAN messiah."Now you've setup a strawman by attributing an argument to me I never made. I am truly astonished by your lack of candor is dealing with what I write, and instead preferring to tackle what you think. Now you may have once accepted the circular reasoning that: "Jesus is the Messiah, therefore OT prophecies have Messianic prophetic meaning, because Jesus is the Messiah." Yet because you were so silly to accept your reasoning, does not mean I am or that others here are. Infact if you really did once accept such reasoning, than I'm not sure anyone should trust your reasoning now since you have a track record of fallacious reasoning. "
Wow, you just used outside sources to prove your point later in your post."Now you want to go to the Jews... I'm quite fine with that. Don't you know many of the prophecies Christians attach to Christ within the OT have been considered as Messianic prophecies by Rabbis? Thus, we Christians are not wrongly reading prophecies back into OT Scripture by circularly beginning with presupposition that Christ is the Messiah. Much of the passages do truly have Messianic meaning! Attributing a strawman argument to us (which you perhaps once accepted?) in order to defame our position simply shows your failure to deal with the prophecies at any depth. Infact, how you continually refer to material offsite seems to reveal that your current beliefs are more based on having faith in the authority of others rather than on your own thoughtful thinking and reasoning of the issues at hand. So rather than listening to second-hand information from you, one would perhaps be better researching their own information through Google."
Again, all you do is claim i'm unreliable and that I've basically renounced my faith in Christianity just because of what someone has said, which isn't the case at all. I've shown more than enough to validate my knowledge of the topics at hand.
Sorry but no go, you seem to show your lack of understanding on this"Targum of Jonathan says: "And thou, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, little art thou to be reckoned among the thousands of the house of Judah; out of thee shall proceed in my presence the Messiah to exercise sovereignty over Israel; whose name has been called from eternity, from the days of the everlasting."
"Rabbi Jarchi comments, "Thou art little... out of thee shall come forth to me King Messiah."
topic.
The term, ‘the Messiah’ simply does not appear in the Hebrew Scriptures (or Old Testament). The last group of scholars to acknowledge this fact were conservative Christians, and now the very conservative New Testament specialist Professor George Eldon Ladd states, without qualification, that ‘the simple term “the Messiah” does not occur in the Old Testament at all.’ Of course, the title ‘the Anointed One’
denotes in the Hebrew Scriptures (or Old Testament) a prophet, a priest, and especially a king.
So again we see that its not talking about the moshiach Ben Yosef or Jesus at all, this can simply be infered from the rest of the prophecy which states that this particular King will crush the Assyrians.
Mastermind and many other christians i speak with have shown the emotional aspects i speak about to be true. I mean we are merely having a discussion here, yet Mastermind felt the need to insult me "*****". This of course isn't anything new for me, as any christian I talk to will resort to some form of insult by the end."Ahh... I see... it is flawed because of an emotional reason you have against the way it works. So you commit that same error you attribute to Christians who read the Gospels: "I began like most christians, reading the gospels first and feeling an array of emotions at various times, as that's what the gospels tend to bank on." BTW, could it be you didn't begin like "most Christians"? Could it be many Christians infact based their belief on sound reasoning rather than the emotions you seem to let dictate your beliefs?"
Kurieuo i'd have expected you to understand what i meant. The premise of Christianity begins with belief, one cannot accept Jesus without believing various things about him."Again you fail to understand Christian theology. One is not saved by their belief for don't you know James 2:19 says, "Even the demons believe that-and shudder." Yet, if one loves Christ and thereby follows after Him, then Christ has promised to give us access to God."
Could you please clarify what your talking about as both David and Solomon are from ancient times. However both Enoch and Elijah are still alive if thats what you mean."Are you serious? Name one person who had remained since ancient times? Did David? Did Solomon? Only One would possess such a quality."
Finally, although I know you seem to have something against outside sources, there is a site that I think explains this very well:"In Isaiah 9:6 (9:5 in the Jewish Bible) we read: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." This passage is recognised as Messianic by Rabbis in the following texts:"
http://hometown.aol.com/donluceano/isaiah9.html
Good, I have no problem with this and for a while I thought you were backing down from such an important discussion."PS. You may have noticed I took a stronger stance here. Such is because I apply the same strength to my posts as I feel an opponent in a debate dictates themself or warrants it. Despite this all my words dealt directly with your own statements and responses."
