Does this sound familiar to anyone?

[rampstew]

You grow up in church, spending your time as a toddler and adolescence in the church, growing up with the people that go to church with you and learning more and more about the word of god. you learn to sing and show others how to reach christ. You are young and do not think for yourself just yet.

then high school happens, and you learn some things that the church couldn't keep from you. you learn about evolution, the scientific method, and above all else you learn that christianity is but one religion on the face of the earth of many, but nonetheless, how can you abandon jesus? you grew up with his image on the cross in your mind, how can you betray your savior?...

then college. you meet and befriend people from many, many walks of life. people very different from you and people very similiar to you. you learn about philosophy, reason, logic, greek philosphers. you learn about sociology and psychology, and many times you are disturbed by just how accurate what you learn is. But more importantly, you learn about other religions, you begin to study them, talk to people about them..and things start to all sound very, very familiar...

and one day it hits you. maybe not like a ton of bricks, but it hits you nonetheless; something isnt right. And you know it. The world tells you one thing, and the Bible tells you another. You dont know what to do, you are scared that your foundation and beliefs and the way you have lived your life would have been for nothing if christianity is no longer true to you. so you ignore it, you ignore that little screaming voice in your head. you fall back to what you have always done, go to church, read your bible, pray, soulwin, spend time with the people you grew up with in church.

and eventually, you realize that some things just dont click. some things dont make sense and you know better than to eat what others feed you, but nonetheless you have your faith, and you trust in god. you ignore your reason still. you refuse to think, fearing that the flesh and/or the devil is working his hardest to sway you from the lord; you choose instead to devote yourself to God, leaving everything behind that is "of this world" and give yourself entirely to god. but you dont know what that means do you? yet you still continue to do this, you continue to believe.

and eventually, you realize that all of it has been for nothing. because the truth of the matter is, YOU were the one living in the cave, the one living in darkness, the one blinded by sin. you open your eyes, and you leave your church and all that you have been raised for, and you never look back. and you feel free. happy. Real. Very real. You understand that life is what You make of it, and that is all that should matter to you. And then you realize, life is so wonderful, so much to accomplish, so much to learn and understand! You try to show the people you love your new found views on life, but then shun you. they say the devil has got you, and refuse to even talk to you.

Christianity is about honesty is it not? Be honest then. How many of you can relate to this?
And how many more will lie and say no, they never have and never will question God, and instead direct the focus elsewhere, and will attack me and say that I am starting this thread to instigate something, or to sway people away from christianity. That i am not. This is a question, albeit a long one.

[Canuckster1127]

You've pretty much just created a false dilemma with all of this.

Certainly, I can relate to elements of it. All of us have doubts and are continually analyzing and thinking about what we believe and why. That's normal, healthy and even desirable. There are certainly elements of organized Christianity that have historically, and wrongly, sought to suppress thought in favor of conformity. That''s wrong and is an element independent of the core of Christianity itself which is Christ.

Disagreeing with you here is not attacking you. The fact is that as you appeal to your experience I simply counter with mine that I have gone through all the elements of doubt and examination that you note here and in the end, my eyes and my faith are in Christ and Christ alone. I do not fear questions or even seasons of doubt where I examine or re-examine what I believe because in the end, Christ is more than an intellectual exercise to me. Christ is real and I have a daily relationship with Him and the presence of His Spirit within me which bears witness to me that I belong to Him.

Now, it appears that you're experiencing or have experienced some intellectual challenges and in doing that you're concerned about how others have reacted to you. You may want to take a look at what you've written here and consider the tone and the claims and ask yourself a few questions:

1. Is (or was) your faith in Christ or in Christians? The latter, I assure you, will often fail you.
2. As you ask for honesty from those you're addressing, are you being honest with us and yourself? Are you here to have a discussion or are you here to vent and promote decisions you've already made?
3. There are mulititudes of people both present and in history who have held various and even practically opposite views on many of the issues you note here, in philosophy, science and even elements of theology but yet have remained true to and focused upon Christ because they know Christ personally in their lives and walk. Your words above appear to create the framework that we either agree with you or we are not honest. That's hardly a valid presentation and appears more rooted in the emotions of your past experience than any real desire or effort to work through these issues.

Am I wrong?

Please take some time to read our Board's Purpose and Discussion Guidelines. If you're here to have a discussion, which means suspending the type of tactics you appear to have started with and dropping the intellectually superior facade then you're welcome. If you're simply here to argue and promote your views against Christ and Christianity, then there are forums out there for that, but that is not the purpose of this online community.

bart

[jlay]

I think there is a lot of truth in what you say. However there is all a great deal of fallacy, and so you come to the wrong conclution. Here is one of your major fallacies.
Christians= Narrow minded, closed minded. Anti-intellectual.
Secular= Open minded. Intellectual.
I agree that for many this is exactly what people do experience. That is true. However that scenario does not portray a biblical version of what it means to be a believer.

You dont know what to do, you are scared that your foundation and beliefs and the way you have lived your life would have been for nothing if christianity is no longer true to you.

You see, in your scenario there was never a real foundation to begin with. Only a religious facade. Being a Christian is not at all what you describe. It certainly is never defined that way in the scriptures. I wouldn't blame anyone for walking away from such a thing. However, when you encounter a real savior, you do have reason. In fact you can't have logic or reason apart from the Christian God.

Walking away from 'religion' is a freeing experience. However being freed to only fall into the bondage of what you describe seems most sad too me.

[B. W.]

rampstew

No one lives in Plato's cave...
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[zoegirl]

I went to university (secular) and proceeded to read and all of my studies strengthened my faith (biology major, studied evolution as well). Difference is, I would be willing to bet, is how willing one is to study ALL things in the same critical eye. How willing were you to critically examine everything that was presented to you? It seems that in your story, all one has to do to give up on CHristianity is to simply be spoon-fed other philosophies and accept them as truth.

I would say that your knowledge of Christ, the Bible, and apologetics was sufficiently weak that being spoon fed other worldviews was enough.

[Gman]

Christianity is about honesty is it not? Be honest then. How many of you can relate to this?
And how many more will lie and say no, they never have and never will question God, and instead direct the focus elsewhere, and will attack me and say that I am starting this thread to instigate something, or to sway people away from christianity. That i am not. This is a question, albeit a long one.

rampstew... I understand what you are saying and even I left Christianity when I went to college. I questioned God and everything contrary to it. In fact, not only do I own secular books on biology, but I also own religious books from all the major religions such as Buddhism, islam, Mormonism, and the likes.. In fact I think it IS GOOD to question things about the Bible and God. Questioning is the beginning of learning and through it I have devoted my life to Christ in a much better way..

Our biggest pet peave however here is when atheists don't question God or the bible, but they dictate their beliefs to us.. Questioning is fine, but coming to us with made up beliefs is another.. Then we ask, why are you here?

[jlay]

Questioning is the beginning of learning and through it I have devoted my life to Christ in a much better way..

Gman, would you agree that it is the method of questioning as well?
In fact one can't become a Christian without the most important kind of questioning. That being an internal critique. I wonder how many people pray the sinner's prayer, follow a religious program, yet never do a genuine internal critique.
There are three essential questions that are inate to the human mind. Planted by the creator. "Where did we come from? Why are we here? And, what happens when you die?"

[Gman]

Questioning is the beginning of learning and through it I have devoted my life to Christ in a much better way..

Gman, would you agree that it is the method of questioning as well?
In fact one can't become a Christian without the most important kind of questioning. That being an internal critique. I wonder how many people pray the sinner's prayer, follow a religious program, yet never do a genuine internal critique.
There are three essential questions that are inate to the human mind. Planted by the creator. "Where did we come from? Why are we here? And, what happens when you die?"

Absolutely... An internal critique is very much part of being a Christian.. I've always been a firm believer in that, whereas others tend to shy away from it. We MUST through the Holy Spirit purge ourselves of sin.. Not that we can conquer it fully, we still need to confront it however, if we truly love him.

Ephesians 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

2 Corinthians 13:5-6 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.

Colossians 3:5-8 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

James 1:21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Lamentations 3:40 Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the LORD.

Galatians 6:3-5 If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. 4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, 5 for each one should carry their own load.

Psalm 139:23-24 Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. 24 See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

[Canuckster1127]

rampstew

No one lives in Plato's cave...
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True .... but it is visited quite a bit

[MarcusOfLycia]

Does it sound familiar? Not personally. Maybe I'm odd, but I never had any shortage of 'other belief systems' to examine, and I live in a predominantly Christian community.

Honestly, my biggest conflicts with belief have come from friends who didn't really know much about what they believed rejecting it for an equally ignorant atheism (at least, I'm led to believe its at least as ignorant based on what they say and some of the very common fallacies that they throw at me).

I think your story pretty well sums up the common conception, but it really only applies to people who really were sheltered in their beliefs. However, I think its a jump to say that by adopting another belief system, they suddenly lose the problems in their intellect that made them sheltered in the first place. I think it just means they have a whole new set of symptoms.

[B. W.]

rampstew

No one lives in Plato's cave...

True .... but it is visited quite a bit

I heard that Aristotle sells flash lights...
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[mandelduke]

If this seems familiar to some one including you, I feel sorry from them. What is familiar to me is, I have known there was a God, and Jesus was my savior since I can remember. As for questioning God, I have not only questioned him. But I have told him he was wrong, and how I would have done things if I were God. Now I would like to say at my age, I’m far to wise to question God. But the truth is’ I no longer question him because he is always right. If you people would get to know God and his love for you, you would not have questions like this! Not all of Gods sheep here his voice, only the ones that listen and seek his will here it. So please get to know God!

[mystique]

It's really scary how accurately you just described what I've been going through, although I haven't yet gotten to the point of abandoning my faith. I have no problems with creation but have always taken issue with how impossible it seems that God would send those who have never heard of him to hell, and every answer I ever heard of to this question seems a bit indefinite. I've reasoned though that this makes sense as every human life is different and God will deal with all of us differently. I'm not going to go into every discussion I've had with myself over different issues that have troubled me (other religions, human morality, those incapable of understanding the gospel) but no you are not alone. I would encourage you to keep seeking though. As for me, it seems that finding this post was a beginning of finding God. Maybe the screaming voice in the back of your (and my own) head is god forcing me to challenge my beliefs because I would otherwise never realize I don't have a relationship with him, which I have come to realize I don't. Email me if you would like to talk about any specific issues; it would be great to talk about some of the stuff that's been bothering me too.

[MarcusOfLycia]

I'm not going to go into every discussion I've had with myself over different issues that have troubled me (other religions, human morality, those incapable of understanding the gospel) but no you are not alone. I would encourage you to keep seeking though.

You don't have to go through all the details, but feel free to elaborate on the issues that have troubled you. Its certainly helped me a lot. I've had some really nasty periods of doubt in the past. Sometimes just talking about the issues with others helped me see them in a different light.

[jlay]

I have no problems with creation but have always taken issue with how impossible it seems that God would send those who have never heard of him to hell, and every answer I ever heard of to this question seems a bit indefinite.

This is simply a misunderstanding of God, Hell, and why people are sent there. You wrongly assume that God sends people to Hell because they are ignorant of Him.

Let's say a man stands before a judge. He is accused of murdering someone. In fact he was caught red handed, and doesn't deny his crime. His defense is that he was unaware there was a judge and unaware there was a law against murdering someone. Based on your issue with God, should the judge let the man go free?

What kind of judge would let this man go free, a good judge or bad judge?