Please define Speaking In Tounges

[daywalker1966]

Here's a problem: According to scripture the desciples were eating and the holy spirit descended on them to give them the supernatural power to speak in foreign languages in order to preachto the world.

Ever since then people talk of speaking in tounges. I was in a church years ago that was disintegrating at the time and one of our members began rolling on the floor spouting gibberish, no language with any purpose at all, just pure gibberish. I've done the same thing when I was nervous or cold and goofing off. Some places call this posession. I'm just wondering if any of those of you who have witnessed this can attest to it being an actual language you were hearing and what purpose it served. There are cults in the European tribes which worship demonic beings and they claim that their gods are controlling them. It makes no sense to me that anyone would simply start speaking a language they did not know for no evident reason.

[B. W.]

Here's a problem: According to scripture the desciples were eating and the holy spirit descended on them to give them the supernatural power to speak in foreign languages in order to preachto the world.

Ever since then people talk of speaking in tounges. I was in a church years ago that was disintegrating at the time and one of our members began rolling on the floor spouting gibberish, no language with any purpose at all, just pure gibberish. I've done the same thing when I was nervous or cold and goofing off. Some places call this posession. I'm just wondering if any of those of you who have witnessed this can attest to it being an actual language you were hearing and what purpose it served. There are cults in the European tribes which worship demonic beings and they claim that their gods are controlling them. It makes no sense to me that anyone would simply start speaking a language they did not know for no evident reason.

It is also judged by the elders/deacons as well and interpreted. That is what I have seen when it is real. Fake or otherwise - churches split - strife - wackiness etc and etc happens and I’ve seen that too. 1 Co 13:1 tells that there are tongues of men and angels but without the deepness of God’s love to govern it, all such speech is mere noise. That is the important difference and how to tell the real from the fake.
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[jlay]

People think the devil will come in the music of Black Sabbath or Witchcraft, or these obvious evils that we see. I assure you he will not. He will come as a counterfeit to what God is doing. He will come to set up his Kingdom. And he will do it with false signs and wonders. No doubt that some of what we see as 'tongues' is a clear sign of this. Some of it is just plain foolishness, or people just doing something they think they are supposed to do.

We are shown a clear example of tongues in the book of Acts, and it resembles NOTHING of what we see going on in the church today. Paul's address to the Corinthians is a rebuke. It is obvious that there are people doing something that is NOT in keeping with the order of things. Paul is very careful in his rebuke and correction, and sadly many take this to be an endorsement of what we know as tongues today. It is a confusing letter because we are not there to witness what exactly was going on in the Corinthian church for ourselves.

I have never personally witnessed anything of what occured on the day or Pentecost, and have only heard the faintest testimony of anyone else witnessing such. I am certain that there are many sincere believers who sincerely believe that their mumblings in personal prayer are an angelic prayer language. I really don't have any gripe with this, but it is void of any real evidence of it actually being so.

[kmr]

I do the same thing, but I do not believe it is possession. I just think that, in the place of our language, when we are strained like that we utter random phrases and words that make no sense simply as an outlet for our emotions. I used to do this very often, and even tried to make up a language based on these little words. But they weren't from Satan, and certainly weren't cursing God in any way.

[jlay]

Oh, I've had moments where I've been praying, and there weren't any real words. Not in my mouth or in my mind. but my heart was speaking just the same. I might have even groaned. But I never thought for a minute that a grunt or a groan or murmur was any kind of language.

[1harpazo]

First off, let me say that the baptism in Jesus Christ is the "cake" (salvation). It is necessary. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is the "icing on the cake". It is not necessary for salvation, but it makes it more fun. I believe that it is for today's Christians.

The topic is "Please define Speaking in Tongues." I'll try to do that from the Bible.

Acts 1:5-8
5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
NASU

Acts 2:1-4

2 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
NASU

Acts 4:29-31
29 "And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus." 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.
NASU

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is to give the believer power (Acts 1:8) and boldness to proclaim the gospel (Acts 4:31). With it comes speaking in tongues (Acts 2:4). In the book of Acts, tongues was a sign to unbelievers where the speaker spoke in a language that he was not knowledgeable of or fluent in to give a message in the hearer's own language. So then there is a sign tongue according to Paul:
1 Cor 14:22
22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
NASU

Then came the gifts of the spirit in 1Corinthians chapter 12. (I didn't want to paste the whole chapter). Of those gifts, there is the gift of speaking in various tongues and the gift of interpretation of tongues (v. 10).

In 1Corinthians 14, Paul wrote:
1 Cor 14:1-5
14 Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. 4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
NASU

Paul wrote, "(You) pursue love, (and) yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts (which includes tongues and interpretation of tongues)." Next he wrote that the one who speaks in tongues, speaks mysteries to God. This is this individual's personal prayer language. He edifies himself. However, if he is in a corporate setting, and speaks in tongues, he (or someone with the gift of interpretation of tongues) must give an interpretation of what was spoken or that person would be out of order and should remain silent. In this case, the message in tongues and the interpretation are for the edification of the corporate body of believers at that location.

So there are three kinds of tongues: sign tongues, personal prayer language and message tongues with interpretation for the edification of the local church.

Now hear what Paul says:
1 Cor 14:37-38
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
NASU

[1harpazo]

People think the devil will come in the music of Black Sabbath or Witchcraft, or these obvious evils that we see. I assure you he will not. He will come as a counterfeit to what God is doing. He will come to set up his Kingdom. And he will do it with false signs and wonders. No doubt that some of what we see as 'tongues' is a clear sign of this. Some of it is just plain foolishness, or people just doing something they think they are supposed to do.

We are shown a clear example of tongues in the book of Acts, and it resembles NOTHING of what we see going on in the church today. Paul's address to the Corinthians is a rebuke. It is obvious that there are people doing something that is NOT in keeping with the order of things. Paul is very careful in his rebuke and correction, and sadly many take this to be an endorsement of what we know as tongues today. It is a confusing letter because we are not there to witness what exactly was going on in the Corinthian church for ourselves.

I have never personally witnessed anything of what occured on the day or Pentecost, and have only heard the faintest testimony of anyone else witnessing such. I am certain that there are many sincere believers who sincerely believe that their mumblings in personal prayer are an angelic prayer language. I really don't have any gripe with this, but it is void of any real evidence of it actually being so.

What I get out of 1Corinthians 14 is that the people were more interested in worshiping God with all speaking in tongues AT THE SAME TIME with no interpretation (v. 23). Paul explains that ALL should not speak in tongues at the same time, but that only two or three should speak consecutively and with interpretation, in an orderly fashion. If done correctly, the congregation will be edified. Paul encouraged ALL to prophesy so that if there are any unbelievers there, they will be convicted of their sin and repent. Paul taught that when gathered together, edifying the corporate body through prophecy is more desirable than speaking in tongues, and...

1 Cor 14:39-40

39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.
NASU

[jlay]

I have absolutely no problem with the Holy Spirit causing men to speak in tongues. Each account we have of tongues in teh scriptures had a very specific and intentional purpose. As do all of God's actions. And if you have an testimony of it happening in accordance with Acts 2, I'm more than willing to listen.

[1harpazo]

I have absolutely no problem with the Holy Spirit causing men to speak in tongues. Each account we have of tongues in teh scriptures had a very specific and intentional purpose. As do all of God's actions. And if you have an testimony of it happening in accordance with Acts 2, I'm more than willing to listen.

I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to say. Is it that you only believe that tongues is for speaking to hearers that do not share the same language as the speaker as in Acts chapter 2?

[jlay]

It would certainly be a sign to confirm the genuine nature, of the other two.

[1harpazo]

It would certainly be a sign to confirm the genuine nature, of the other two.

Please comment (give your interpretation) on 1Cor. 14:2,4 "For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church."
NASU

[jlay]

Well one can't properly interpret this verse out of context or without proper exegesis. Although I'm willing to get into a discussion, we've already had lenghty discussions on this topic here at G&S. Obviously there are some things we are unable to gain a proper grip on, because we are not there to witness exactly what was going on in the Corinthian church. Only that it was improper and Paul needed to correct.

As I asked before. If you have testimony of an Acts 2 experience, if would certainly give credence to the genuine nature of what you are claiming to be tongues.

If this boils down to having a personal, private, prayer language, then I really don't care to debate or discuss. Ultimately the issue at controversy is not this, but what is happening publicly and in open assemblies.

[1harpazo]

I have absolutely no problem with the Holy Spirit causing men to speak in tongues. Each account we have of tongues in teh scriptures had a very specific and intentional purpose. As do all of God's actions. And if you have an testimony of it happening in accordance with Acts 2, I'm more than willing to listen.

jlay, you seek for testimonies of the Pentecost tongues. Have you travailed on your knees before Almighty God (just a question, not a condemnation; I do not know you) about this Pentecost experience? Rather than hearing testimonies, I perceive that God wants you to participate in that experience. You are like the Apostle Peter. You can be bold in proclaiming the gospel. Pray ("travail" is the better word) that those tongues of fire rest on you, anoint you. Blessings brother.

[jlay]

Harp,

I have my friend. Both privately and at the request of others. In fact I have friends who are huge in the Pentecostal church who have prayed with me. Have you heard of Steve Fatow? The problem is I can't find any scriptural defense to pray to request something like tongues for myself.
The disciples taried and prayed. But there is no evidence that the disciples prayed for tongues or even had any idea what it was. God moved, and that was the way it manifested. It wasn't contrived. We simply don't have verifiable testimony today of such occurances. The reality is that God may not have it to do such a thing again.