Responding to Evangelical Atheists

[MarcusOfLycia]

I typically avoid Facebook debates because they get really ridiculous really fast, but lately I haven't been able to hold back when people post things that rub me the wrong way. This is a snippet of a 'debate' that I pulled out of really fast. The post was a youtube video a Christian friend posted that was basically a challenge of "where are all the godly men and women today?" I just wanted to hear what other people had to say about it. I've posted my own response as well:

A lot of us became humanists. Many humanists hold closer to the teachings of Jesus than Christians, but chafe horribly with the rest of the bible. We're not really bad people, and we would probably agree on most things yet, but we tend to have more radical views on tolerance, charity, and equality.

"Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment"

How many secular humanists hold this teaching?

manists won't flinch too many times when read the new testament. I have to remind you though, that Jesus also told us to do some rather awful things. There are reasons we don't really put that much stock in the bible.

~Jesus came to bring destruction
"Do not suppose that I [Jesus] have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)"

~Jesus wants apostates (like me!) killed
"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:5-6)"

~Jesus commands his followers to take up the sword
"He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)"

~Jesus kills the innocent children of sinners (or will anyway)
"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (From the NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23)"

I mean it isn't like most Christians follow the "no working on the sabbath even if your family will die otherwise" rule. There is plenty in the bible that just isn't that noteworthy (or is downright wrong). That's a good part of what convinces many of us the book couldn't be divinely inspired. You can say the book has been "handed down by man" and all that. But really what kind of god are you worshiping if he isn't even powerful enough to keep his own holy book error free? I think it's a stretch to say that humanism lines up perfectly with the teachings of Jesus, but at the same time, I think it's a stretch for almost any group to say the bible is a book they truly follow. Nobody follows it absolutely, and we all tend to have much more in common than we think. But then... I am a humanist, you probably knew I would say something like that.

I've come across two types of atheists in debates. One group is honestly searching for something, the other is honestly hateful of something. I try to cease dialogue with people in the atter group as quickly as it begins, and I will do so here as well. I honestly don't have as much energy to disprove your faith as you do to disprove mine. All I can say is I hope you can reflect on your beliefs and their logical conclusions of fatalism and nihilism. Nitczhe is by far the most consistent atheistic philosoher I've read, and that is pretty sad to me.

[MarcusOfLycia]

The other guy went on to say that "Humanism is about removing intolerance", and accused Christianity as having Condemnation as one of its central tenets.

[B. W.]

The other guy went on to say that "Humanism is about removing intolerance", and accused Christianity as having Condemnation as one of its central tenets.

Intolerence, and they desire to ban Christmas displays and remove Christianity from the face of the earth?



just had to laugh a bit...
-
-
-

[Maytan]

I'm coming to the conclusion that nearly every argument you see from your average layman atheist is based upon a misunderstanding of the Bible. It's rather unfortunate, because having to correct the same misunderstandings can get rather old very fast.

Anyway, I think you took the correct approach here. The Bible tells us not to cast our pearls among swines, after all. I may be making an assumption, but he didn't seem too willing to learn.

[puritan lad]

Many humanists hold closer to the teachings of Jesus than Christians, but chafe horribly with the rest of the bible.

But Jesus taught the rest of the Bible.

We're not really bad people, and we would probably agree on most things yet, but we tend to have more radical views on tolerance, charity, and equality.

Their "tolerance" is a myth, but that will take some deeper discussion. They certainly aren't tolerant of orthodox Christianity.

Humanists won't flinch too many times when read the new testament. I have to remind you though, that Jesus also told us to do some rather awful things. There are reasons we don't really put that much stock in the bible.

How dare God judge sin, eh? I would suggest that standing in judgment of God is the height of "intolerance", (and not very wise to boot).

There is plenty in the bible that just isn't that noteworthy (or is downright wrong). That's a good part of what convinces many of us the book couldn't be divinely inspired.

On what authority does he make this claim?

[MarcusOfLycia]

His list of 'evil things Jesus said' was bizarre to me, since if he wanted to find things to debate about, I've found better ones myself that I've seen clarified. The 'debate' actually degenerated further for a little bit before it was cut off. I reminded him that while a central aspect of Christianity is condemnation, it is of actions and not of people. He just overall seems to have a lot of pride in his 'knowledge' of how bad Christianity and Christians are and yet it isn't really that good.

What I found interesting is that it sort of became like other debates I've had on Facebook recently, which turn into me answering google searches of Atheist websites. So much for intellectual engagement, if it had a chance to occur anyway.