Jesus was the angel Michael!

[voicingmaster]

Also, you have yet to explain how God could be tempted. I mean, it says Jesus was tempted in every way we were, and it also says God can't be tempted. Meaning, not just three times in the desert, but also other, more mundane temptations like ours for 33 years. How would that show loyalty? God can't rebel against Himself, He can't be disloyal to Himself.

"Thou shalt not tempt your LORD thy God"

God wouldn't give such a law if somebody could not tempt God, don't you think? Whether one can tempt God is irrelevant. What is relevant is that God cannot fall for it. Satan thinks that because he fell, then God can fall too. I guess it's a pride issue. He still thinks he's better.

God can't be tempted by evil
James 1:13 "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone."

Jesus was tempted in every way
Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-- yet was without sin"

Hebrews 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

The pharasees deviated from Hebrew scripture a lot. For example, there's one part where Jesus rebukes them for declaring dishonering your parents is ok.

Please give me the verse, because if it's the one I'm thinking of, I can already tell you didn't understand what
Jesus was doing.

I don't feel like going through the entire book of Matthew right now. Can you just quote what you think it is and then explain what you think it means?

The New Earth will be a paradise.

Any verse that states the new Earth is THE paradise? Because there are many references to heaven (like when Jesus tells the apostles there are many rooms in his father's house) and references to the new earth(Revelations) and there is nothing to suggest they are the same thing.

The Lord's prayer. "When thy kingdom come, let it be on earth as it is in heaven". Ergo, the new earth will be like heaven, a paradise.

[Mastermind]

God can't be tempted by evil
James 1:13 "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone."

Jesus was tempted in every way
Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-- yet was without sin"

Hebrews 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

Again, "Thou shalt not tempt your LORD thy God". These appear contradictory and i don't feel like going back to check the greek, so we can settle it this way: who said what?

James said your quote.
Jesus said mine.
Who has the higher authority?

I don't feel like going through the entire book of Matthew right now. Can you just quote what you think it is and then explain what you think it means?

I don't feel like looking for mine either, and since you brought it up, you should be providing the verse. However, I remember that it was a rebuttal after the pharisees asked Jesus why the apostles were doing work on the sabbath, and jesus asked them "how come you don't kill kids who badmouth their parents" in return. He wasn't suggesting that they do it, he was basically calling them hypocrites.

The Lord's prayer. "When thy kingdom come, let it be on earth as it is in heaven". Ergo, the new earth will be like heaven, a paradise.

Like heaven does not make earth itsef heaven, it makes it LIKE heaven, hence the word "like".

[voicingmaster]

God can't be tempted by evil
James 1:13 "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone."

Jesus was tempted in every way
Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-- yet was without sin"

Hebrews 2:18 "Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

Again, "Thou shalt not tempt your LORD thy God". These appear contradictory and i don't feel like going back to check the greek, so we can settle it this way: who said what?

James said your quote.
Jesus said mine.
Who has the higher authority?

You do realise that you're suggesting that the book of James is a lie, right? No part of divinely inspired Word is better or worse than the other, they're all equal b/c they were all inspired by God. I would think a Christian would know that Doesn't really matter b/c that quote isn't even from Jesus, it's from the guy who wrote Deutronomy.

And I don't think that's what tempt God means. It could mean that you shouldn't test God by saying "If He loves me, He'll do this." I doubt it means to tempt God to sin, after all, think of the audience of the Bible, us, humans. How can a human even attempt to tempt God into sinning?

I don't feel like going through the entire book of Matthew right now. Can you just quote what you think it is and then explain what you think it means?

I don't feel like looking for mine either, and since you brought it up, you should be providing the verse. However, I remember that it was a rebuttal after the pharisees asked Jesus why the apostles were doing work on the sabbath, and jesus asked them "how come you don't kill kids who badmouth their parents" in return. He wasn't suggesting that they do it, he was basically calling them hypocrites.

The Pharisees still made up thier own traditions.

The Lord's prayer. "When thy kingdom come, let it be on earth as it is in heaven". Ergo, the new earth will be like heaven, a paradise.

Like heaven does not make earth itsef heaven, it makes it LIKE heaven, hence the word "like".

And how does that make it less of a paradise? And isn't living on the New Earth basically a promise from God anyway? So think about what you're saying, according to you, we go to heaven, which is nicer, then God degrades us to the new earth for some unknown reason.

[Mastermind]

You do realise that you're suggesting that the book of James is a lie, right? No part of divinely inspired Word is better or worse than the other, they're all equal b/c they were all inspired by God. I would think a Christian would know that

No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that one of them was mistranslated.

Doesn't really matter b/c that quote isn't even from Jesus, it's from the guy who wrote Deutronomy.

And Jesus uses it, thus endorsing it.

And I don't think that's what tempt God means. It could mean that you shouldn't test God by saying "If He loves me, He'll do this." I doubt it means to tempt God to sin, after all, think of the audience of the Bible, us, humans. How can a human even attempt to tempt God into sinning?

Tempting somebody does not mean the person will give in. You can certanily try to tempt God, but it won't work(which is what I believe James was referring to).

The Pharisees still made up thier own traditions.

Maybe, but that one was not one of them. I believe it is outlined somewhere in the OT.

And how does that make it less of a paradise? And isn't living on the New Earth basically a promise from God anyway? So think about what you're saying, according to you, we go to heaven, which is nicer, then God degrades us to the new earth for some unknown reason.

I never said either of them is nicer than the other. I said they are not the same thing. They might even be equally good but still different.

[voicingmaster]

You do realise that you're suggesting that the book of James is a lie, right? No part of divinely inspired Word is better or worse than the other, they're all equal b/c they were all inspired by God. I would think a Christian would know that

No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that one of them was mistranslated.

You said yours was better b/c Jesus used it. So, whatever Jesus says can't be mistranslated, but what James says can?

Doesn't really matter b/c that quote isn't even from Jesus, it's from the guy who wrote Deutronomy.

And Jesus uses it, thus endorsing it.

Irrelevant. All of the Bible is divinely inspired, and thus true, regardless of whether or not Jesus restated it.

And I don't think that's what tempt God means. It could mean that you shouldn't test God by saying "If He loves me, He'll do this." I doubt it means to tempt God to sin, after all, think of the audience of the Bible, us, humans. How can a human even attempt to tempt God into sinning?

Tempting somebody does not mean the person will give in. You can certanily try to tempt God, but it won't work(which is what I believe James was referring to).

Give me an example of how I can tempt God into sinning.

And how does that make it less of a paradise? And isn't living on the New Earth basically a promise from God anyway? So think about what you're saying, according to you, we go to heaven, which is nicer, then God degrades us to the new earth for some unknown reason.

I never said either of them is nicer than the other. I said they are not the same thing. They might even be equally good but still different.

Yeah, but Jesus the thief would entire paradise, not Heaven. Not all paradises are necesarily in Heaven.

[Mastermind]

You said yours was better b/c Jesus used it. So, whatever Jesus says can't be mistranslated, but what James says can?

What part of "one of them" made you think I was referring to Jesus? Since Jesus's quote occurs at least twice in the bible, it's safe to say that James's quote IS indeed more likely to be mistranslated. But unless one of us feels like grabbing the greek version (I know I don't), there isn't much more we can discuss.

Irrelevant. All of the Bible is divinely inspired, and thus true, regardless of whether or not Jesus restated it.

You realise there are spelling mistakes and small errors in the bible, right?

Give me an example of how I can tempt God into sinning.

"Hey God, can you steal me a six pack? I'll go to church on sunday if you do.

Yeah, but Jesus the thief would entire paradise, not Heaven. Not all paradises are necesarily in Heaven.

Except the new earth is not paradise, it is LIKE paradise. Heaven=paradise. You're going around in circles.

[bizzt]

What part of "one of them" made you think I was referring to Jesus? Since Jesus's quote occurs at least twice in the bible, it's safe to say that James's quote IS indeed more likely to be mistranslated. But unless one of us feels like grabbing the greek version (I know I don't), there isn't much more we can discuss.

It is our mistranslation of the bible (Not the bible itself)

You realise there are spelling mistakes and small errors in the bible, right?

You're joking right

"Hey God, can you steal me a six pack? I'll go to church on sunday if you do.

But Luke 4:10-4:11 tells us that yes you can Tempt God

[Mastermind]

Bizzt, I don't think you even understood my post...

[bizzt]

Bizzt, I don't think you even understood my post...

Sometimes I don't Mastermind... This is probably one of those times

[voicingmaster]

You said yours was better b/c Jesus used it. So, whatever Jesus says can't be mistranslated, but what James says can?

What part of "one of them" made you think I was referring to Jesus? Since Jesus's quote occurs at least twice in the bible, it's safe to say that James's quote IS indeed more likely to be mistranslated. But unless one of us feels like grabbing the greek version (I know I don't), there isn't much more we can discuss.

There's no reason that simply b/c it is mentioned twice means it looses it's ability to be mistranslated. And the mistranslation would be one our part, not the ancient Jews. And since I'm not gonna go into the Greek either, I guess this is as far as it goes.

As for you didn't say you're referring to Jesus, actually, you kinda did.

James said your quote.
Jesus said mine.
Who has the higher authority?

Irrelevant. All of the Bible is divinely inspired, and thus true, regardless of whether or not Jesus restated it.

You realise there are spelling mistakes and small errors in the bible, right?

What makes you think that? And that doesn't mean it is any less divinely inspired. Now you're altering what the Bible says and denying it's divinely inspiredness.

Yeah, but Jesus the thief would entire paradise, not Heaven. Not all paradises are necesarily in Heaven.

Except the new earth is not paradise, it is LIKE paradise. Heaven=paradise. You're going around in circles.

Give me a quote that states heaven is the only paradise, and in order for it to be a paradise it had to be in heaven.

Oh, and as for the whole tempting God thing, I think I figured it out. God can't be tempted in that whatever attempt we do to get God to sin, it won't phase Him at all. However, we shouldn't even try. Whereas with Jesus, He was phased by it, in that He was tempted in everyway we were. My interpretation.

[Mastermind]

What makes you think that?

There are a couple of instances where they use two different numbers for the same thing. Nothing major. Even this site states there are 50 thousand discrepencies between all the documents we have. But it doesn't matter as it does not alter the message.

And that doesn't mean it is any less divinely inspired. Now you're altering what the Bible says and denying it's divinely inspiredness.

I did no such thing.

Give me a quote that states heaven is the only paradise, and in order for it to be a paradise it had to be in heaven.

I don't have to. It never says the new earth is paradise, it states it is LIKE paradise. There can be a bazillion paradises for all I care and it won't change this fact.

Oh, and as for the whole tempting God thing, I think I figured it out. God can't be tempted in that whatever attempt we do to get God to sin, it won't phase Him at all. However, we shouldn't even try. Whereas with Jesus, He was phased by it, in that He was tempted in everyway we were. My interpretation.

Even if Jesus is not part of the trinity, I don't see why he would be phased. Why be satisfied with the kingdoms of the world when he knows his father is giving him all of creation?

[voicingmaster]

But it doesn't matter as it does not alter the message.

Sorta like how it wouldn't alter what James, Jesus, and the guy who wrote Deutronomy's message...

And that doesn't mean it is any less divinely inspired. Now you're altering what the Bible says and denying it's divinely inspiredness.

I did no such thing.

You were implying that what James said wasn't fully true, or how James's message was less valid b/c it wasn't repeated by Jesus.

Give me a quote that states heaven is the only paradise, and in order for it to be a paradise it had to be in heaven.

I don't have to. It never says the new earth is paradise, it states it is LIKE paradise. There can be a bazillion paradises for all I care and it won't change this fact.

If there are multiple paradises, then heaven is not THE paradise, but A paradise, just as much paradise as the new earth.

Oh, and as for the whole tempting God thing, I think I figured it out. God can't be tempted in that whatever attempt we do to get God to sin, it won't phase Him at all. However, we shouldn't even try. Whereas with Jesus, He was phased by it, in that He was tempted in everyway we were. My interpretation.

Even if Jesus is not part of the trinity, I don't see why he would be phased. Why be satisfied with the kingdoms of the world when he knows his father is giving him all of creation?

Sometimes logic can fail us, and we do find temptation, well tempting. Jesus was human and thus found it tempting. Fortunately though, God was behind Him, and He never sinned. It's hard to explain with words.

[Mastermind]

Sorta like how it wouldn't alter what James, Jesus, and the guy who wrote Deutronomy's message...

The original texts won't. The english translations have no such luxury.

You were implying that what James said wasn't fully true, or how James's message was less valid b/c it wasn't repeated by Jesus.

No, it was a quick way to settle it without resorting to verifying the greek.

If there are multiple paradises, then heaven is not THE paradise, but A paradise, just as much paradise as the new earth.

Sorry, but if earth is like paradise, then it cannot BE paradise. Basic logic.

Sometimes logic can fail us, and we do find temptation, well tempting. Jesus was human and thus found it tempting. Fortunately though, God was behind Him, and He never sinned. It's hard to explain with words.

I think you give the devil too much credit. I believe Jesus knew exactly what He had to accomplish and doubt the devil could phase him, whether he was human or divine.

[voicingmaster]

If there are multiple paradises, then heaven is not THE paradise, but A paradise, just as much paradise as the new earth.

Sorry, but if earth is like paradise, then it cannot BE paradise. Basic logic.

What makes you think that he new earth will be only like a paradise? Why can't it a BE A paradise? The only "like" used is like heaven. Heaven is just God's kingdom. Also, the Lord's prayer goes "Let it be on earth as it is on heaven" meaning let the earth as it is in heaven, as in a pradise.

Sometimes logic can fail us, and we do find temptation, well tempting. Jesus was human and thus found it tempting. Fortunately though, God was behind Him, and He never sinned. It's hard to explain with words.

I think you give the devil too much credit. I believe Jesus knew exactly what He had to accomplish and doubt the devil could phase him, whether he was human or divine.

No doubt that Jesus knew what He was doing. But, think about it, 33 years of temptation. I mean, the massive temptation when He was being beaten, how painful that must've been. He could've just told His disciples to attack and set Him free, but He didn't. ALso, the Bible says that He was tempted in everyway we were, and Jesus was human, thus, He could've probably been phased. Not that it really matters b/c He didn't give in though.

[Mastermind]

What makes you think that he new earth will be only like a paradise? Why can't it a BE A paradise? The only "like" used is like heaven. Heaven is just God's kingdom. Also, the Lord's prayer goes "Let it be on earth as it is on heaven" meaning let the earth as it is in heaven, as in a pradise.

It can't be a paradise because it makes more sense for it to be "like" paradise, since that's what it says.

No doubt that Jesus knew what He was doing. But, think about it, 33 years of temptation. I mean, the massive temptation when He was being beaten, how painful that must've been. He could've just told His disciples to attack and set Him free, but He didn't. ALso, the Bible says that He was tempted in everyway we were, and Jesus was human, thus, He could've probably been phased. Not that it really matters b/c He didn't give in though.

Yea, it's not really of much relevance. After all, even thouhg I believe Jesus was a part of God, I know he was also human.