Second Law of Thermodynamics

[godfavour]

Brian Cox's latest series on the concept of time, shown Sunday night 6 March 11. This man has a tremendous gift of communicating principles and facts in an understandable way. I am amazed he does not believe in God! I personally don't know his views on evolution but his emphasis on the second law of thermodynamics surely logically points to evolution as being scientifically impossible. His emphasis was on the concept of time, the arrow of time as he put it, being demonstrated through this law and the scientific fact that matter goes from a state of high order to disorder and decay. This is what the Bible says; man and the creation were made whole, complete and perfect and then the fall has produced the curse of death and decay and as the Bible says the whole thing will come to an end. Even now, the birth pains of the final destruction of the earth are being felt; this destruction by fire is going to occur just as Brian said, but far, far sooner than he anticipates; comments please?

[RickD]

Well first off, welcome godfavour. Without a link, I can't comment on the show. I believe this creation was made perfect for its purpose. The bible doesn't say that man's sin brought about death and decay, but only death to humanity, specifically spiritual death. I'd argue that decay and the 2nd law existed at the very moment that God spoke this creation into existence. This is the old earth interpretation, as opposed to some young earth creationists that believe all death came about after Adam sinned. Keep in mind that sin was already in the world before Adam sinned. Satan had already sinned sometime before he tempted Eve in the garden. Romans 5:12 talks about the kind of death that Adam's sin brought into this world. The verse is specifically talking about human death and the following verses talk about human redemption.

There are many threads here about this, and you can come to your own conclusions. It's a great forum. Welcome aboard.

[Kristoffer]

I personally don't know his views on evolution but his emphasis on the second law of thermodynamics surely logically points to evolution as being scientifically impossible.

I take it that you know what the other laws of thermodynamics are then? Or would knowing them be inconvinient?

Btw rickd if you get a english or scotish proxy you can watch BBC over the internet(provided you have a good enough connection)

[Seraph]

If matter always went from a state of high order to a state of decay, how come babies eventually grow up into adults?

The 2nd law is that energy, not matter, goes from a state of higher order to a state of lower order. The energy on Earth that sustains life does flow from a higher order, the Sun.

Of course, this could be traced all the way back to the highest source of energy in our natural universe, the Big Bang, which I think is traced back to an even higher source of energy, God.

[Kristoffer]

I guess you dont know what the first law is?

Babies into adults, how about go the whole hog. How could one Cell become a animal with trillions of cells? Oh and by the way, it only takes 9 months.

[Seraph]

I can't tell if you are talking to me or not. I was argueing that the 2nd Law does not conflict with evolution.

1st law is that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Though that's not entirely true if you look at the beginning and end of the universe...

[Kristoffer]

yea you are right it doesn't i must of been confused.

[Proinsias]

If matter always went from a state of high order to a state of decay, how come babies eventually grow up into adults?

I believe the second law refers to a closed system, in grossly simplified manner it is going to take the degradation of an awful lot of highly ordered systems into poo to turn one baby into an adult. And I imagine it would be difficult to equate the universe as a closed system with Christianity, as God can 'open the door' so to speak.

[zoegirl]

also, the 2nd law states that without the input of energy.....which can explain why one cell grows into more complex.....etc....

[godfavour]

Thanks for your welcome to the forum and the subsequent comments. I am not totally opposed to the theory of Evolution, only dubious at this stage; one of my great heroes of the faith, CS Lewis, believed in evolution. Here's a couple more thoughts I'll express as statements:
1. If evolution did happen then due to the sheer improbability of the complex systems of life, eg DNA, evolving from a single cell, does that not make it so improbable that any reasonable analysis would put it right down the list of possible ways our would came into being. Management of a business is all about looking at probabilities of certain events taking place; the very least probable are discounted and the effort goes into mitigating against the most likely risks. Here's another one: We only dare step on board an aircraft because we are told that the risk of crashing is extremly small; if we were told there was even a 10% chance of not making it, very few people would fly; hope this demonstrates my point; however, if there was an intelliegent and powerful God behind evolution (or anything for that matter) then all things are possible! This is true, too, of a baby developing into an adult.
2. Back to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Point taken about the difference between matter and energy, but even the baby will grow old and die. It is interesting that the law can be temporarily reversed with the input of intelligence and energy in the way that we have to spend much time and effort in life maintaining houses, cars etc which even then tend to end up as scrap or rubble.
I think my overall point here is that whether evolution took place or not, it only makes sense with an intelligent and powerful source behind it. How else would the growth of new and ordered ever be able to stem the tide of decay death and destruction?