Preterism

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:08 pm

bizzt wrote:On top of what Felgar says in the Book of Daniel it tells us that there will be a peace treaty between Israel and The Anti-Christ for 7 years. We have not seen that yet!

Indeed, one sure sign that we haven't yet seen the anti-christ.

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:52 pm

Felgar wrote:
bizzt wrote:On top of what Felgar says in the Book of Daniel it tells us that there will be a peace treaty between Israel and The Anti-Christ for 7 years. We have not seen that yet!
Indeed, one sure sign that we haven't yet seen the anti-christ.

Well we may have seen him but do not know who he really is

Possibility but hopefully Death or the Return of Christ will be before I see the Anti-Christ

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:22 pm

Some people don't think the antichrist is only one person. In addition, I thought preterists thought Nero was the antichrist.

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:26 pm

Mastermind wrote:Some people don't think the antichrist is only one person. In addition, I thought preterists thought Nero was the antichrist.

I agree there are many Anti-Christs but there will be one that will have so much Evil that he will be called the ANTI_CHRIST. If I only had an Echo Machine! It would give it so much more dramatic Effect!!!

Shirtless · Post by **Shirtless** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:38 pm

bizzt wrote:I agree there are many Anti-Christs but there will be one that will have so much Evil that he will be called the ANTI_CHRIST. If I only had an Echo Machine! It would give it so much more dramatic Effect!!!

To be honest, I think that the only reason why the later Church Fathers endorsed the end times view was for just that reason: drama! Just one of many unbiblical tactics used in order to keep the citizens of Byzantium in line. When faced with a problem of how to keep order without stretching your millitary, it's so much easier to say you will be eternally tortured in Hell, or you will by allies with the Anti-Christ if you don't obey the Church.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:46 pm

Or perhaps they were just paranoid

Christ said the end was at hand, and it is on His timescale (billions upon billions of eternities) but the early Christians didn't know that! They actually thought His kingdom was coming in their lifetimes so they tried to be prepared as it says in the Bible. (The parable about the lord being out and his servants watching for him.)

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:34 am

Shirtless wrote:To be honest, I think that the only reason why the later Church Fathers endorsed the end times view was for just that reason: drama!

That is ridiculous. The reason an end times view is accepted is because no prior events have fullfilled the Bible's description of the end times.

Of course, the only way to prove that would be for you to delve into the prophecies yourself and make up your own mind. I'm not one for books but I'm sure there are a number of books that one could use as a starting point.

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:13 am

Felgar wrote:
Shirtless wrote:To be honest, I think that the only reason why the later Church Fathers endorsed the end times view was for just that reason: drama!
That is ridiculous. The reason an end times view is accepted is because no prior events have fullfilled the Bible's description of the end times.

Of course, the only way to prove that would be for you to delve into the prophecies yourself and make up your own mind. I'm not one for books but I'm sure there are a number of books that one could use as a starting point.

Look for Jack Van Impe. He seems to be genuine and has the greatest scope on the End times. http://www.jvim.com

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:51 am

bizzt wrote:Look for Jack Van Impe. He seems to be genuine and has the greatest scope on the End times. http://www.jvim.com

Agreed. I've thought of bringing him up many times. Unless I want to do my own research I pretty much defer to him on any end times issue.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:04 pm

For a clear and concise time-line of the end times prophecies try this site: http://www.prophecycode.org or http://www.amazingfacts.com This guy tells what the Bible says about the prophecies that have been fulfilled and what's left to come, according to the Bible. The Bible references are in PDF format to download also.
[/url]

j316 · Post by **j316** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:39 am

bizzt wrote:
j316 wrote:
Felgar wrote:
j316 wrote:If you were following the news regularly how would you know whether or not you were in the middle of those events? Think about it, the news now could be apocalyptic, or it could have been at any particular time in history.
Many prophecies are like that, in that they could apply in varying degrees to various points throughout history. But the spectacular rise of a single leader that ushers in world peace and in particular a 7 year agreement with Isreal is not something that applies to past events. Which is the exact reason I haven't spent much time learning about the end times, because they very well may be a long ways off.
I would put myself in the preterist camp so I believe that all that has already happened but there is one thing I find kind of interesting. Prior to the final events of revelation, after the millennium, satan is to be released for a time. I wonder, given the nature of some of the things that have happened in the 150 years, if we are not in that period of time now. The primary reason I say that is because satan is the accuser of the church, and the pace of that has been increasing almost exponentially in the recent past.

Given the current state of expectatation as to the nearness of some great event, could people be confusing the pre rapture period with the pre armageddon period?
For the first part I would have to say no. What is the Determining Factor of when He was released from the Abyss? And when was Satan ever Thrown into the Abyss?

The determining factor for when satan would be unchained is whatever determines the end of the millennium. Of course that is kind of obvious, when did it start is the more interesting question.

Satan was bound and thrown into the abyss in Rev 20:3,. I misspoke in my second post, I meant the final war after the millennium, not armageddon.
He is thrown into the abyss prior to the millennium, at the end of the millennial rule he is released for a period of time [a little season in KJV] then after that battle he is thrown into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet.

What I was saying originally is that it would be extremely difficult to say exactly where we are now in this sequence of events. I think that the devil is currently loose after his 1000 year captivity. I say this because of what I see in the historical record and current events and trends. This is all just my opinion so you can make what you want out of it, but I don't think that what is coming is the millennium, I think we are further along than that.

j316 · Post by **j316** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:49 am

Felgar wrote:
j316 wrote:I would put myself in the preterist camp so I believe that all that has already happened but there is one thing I find kind of interesting. Prior to the final events of revelation, after the millennium, satan is to be released for a time. I wonder, given the nature of some of the things that have happened in the 150 years, if we are not in that period of time now. The primary reason I say that is because satan is the accuser of the church, and the pace of that has been increasing almost exponentially in the recent past.
No we couldn't be in that period now due to the fact that we have not seen the battle of Ameggedon that marks the demise of the anti-christ and the start of the 1000-year reign.

What about the crusades? Overall not much was really gained but they were significant in the history of the church. I do not think that there is going to be a signpost on any of the events in Revelation because that would allow us to date it accurately. Rev 16:15 speaks of coming like a thief in the night, thieves don't post notices in the paper.

Armageddon marks a turning point in the history of the church that Revelation describes, the period of time around 1000 AD was of a similar nature.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Tue May 03, 2005 12:06 pm

j316 wrote:What about the crusades? Overall not much was really gained but they were significant in the history of the church. I do not think that there is going to be a signpost on any of the events in Revelation because that would allow us to date it accurately. Rev 16:15 speaks of coming like a thief in the night, thieves don't post notices in the paper.

Ok well first the whole world did not see God descend from heaven. Additionally the crusades were not against Isreal. And we have no known record of every person being required to aquire a mark on their foreheads in order to buy and sell (in fact, most would have lived off the land and done little buying and selling). Also the knowledge curve didn't explode at that time.

I understand your reasoning that it will be a suprise, but it's the day or hour that will not be known - and further to that, those who are not deceived will understand it to be coming soon. I believe that as more signs are fullfilled, it will be come ever more obvious what is to come. I guess we'll see.

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Tue May 03, 2005 12:51 pm

Agreed and on top of that the Prophecy in Daniel was only fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became a Nation again...

Thanks

twoedgedsword · Post by **twoedgedsword** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:00 pm

I have good reason to believe that the end will come in 2007
care to know why?