Have you ever seen people doing things that you would never want to be involved with? Such as people rioting on the news – or teenagers roughhousing on the sidewalk or kids taunting or bullying another kid? How about a Christian acting very un-Christ like? Doesn’t seeing bad behavior drive you away from that place and those people saying ‘I don’t want anything to do with people like that’?
Maybe you’ve stepped in and tried to stop the behavior of people like that and got hurt in the process ( you just can’t stand by and be a doormat all the time) and after you have prayed and prayed for help or support or even grace. But after a while and after the damage has been done – somehow you get tired and decide to question what you believe, that’s what people like C & J did to me. After we trusted them and their bad behavior had me question my faith and beliefs and realize that there is no heaven or forgiveness for bad people who pretend to be Christians. They walk away with a clean conscience after they ask for forgiveness leaving damage and pain in their wake.
I might not be perfect but if I do something bad or hurt someone I cannot pretend to be forgiven and go on like it never happened. We need to try to fix the damage to the person and it bothers me when I do something bad, that what prevents me from continueing to do something bad whereas to so called ‘forgiven Christian’ like C & J they continue to turn people away from God's love by their bad behavior. They attend church to sing in the choir and have friends for their kids.
Bad behavior
Re: Bad behavior
I wish someone could give me help/advice how to deal with bad people like that so I don't totally lose my faith. I have seen so much good that has happened in church but they have rocked the foundations of my faith. I would like to understand how bad people can be forgiven - how do good people who are hurt by them get over it? I have tried to forgive them and turn the other cheek but they just slap it again. Are they influenced by Satan?
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Canuckster1127
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Re: Bad behavior
Hi cj,
Sorry to be slow in responding to this. Forgiveness is a difficult thing and sometimes I think in Christian circles we are confused on a few things.
First, as a Christian, forgiveness is a major theme of God's message to us through Jesus Christ and it's also a major point of much that Jesus had to teach. When we accept Christ and His forgiveness of our sin and rebellion against Him, we also are placed in a position where we are expected as a natural response to Christ to forgive others.
The funny thing about it is that forgiving others may have some benefit for them, but in the end we're the ones' who benefit the most when we let go of hurts and grudges and give grace to other people.
Foregiveness doesn't mean that we declare that someone hasn't hurt us and then open ourselves in all instances to be hurt again. Forgiveness in many ways is us letting go of someone's throat and stopping the shaking. It's been said, and I agree, that withholding forgiveness from someone is like swallowing rat poison and then waiting for the rats to die. In the end, when we carry frudges and harbor resentments the person who suffers most, is not the person who has harmed us, who often is unaware or doesn't care; the person who suffers most is us. So when we forgive we give up the right for revenge or justice and place the situation into God's hands, knowing that God may just forgive that person, as He has forgiven us. We don't know. We just trust God with them and with the situation.
That doesn't mean we necessarily restore a relationship if the other person isn't willing to own their part. That doesn't mean we necessarily do nothing if the offense and abuse continues. Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek and I believe he meant that. Jesus speaks of persecution that will take place because of Christ. But there are also examples in the NT of people asserting their rights in other contexts. Paul appealed to Rome to hold off people who were trying to harm him. I don't believe he was wrong to do that.
If you're being bullied, it will be important for you to forgive and let go of that offense, but that doesn't mean you need to passively accept being bullied. Let people know, especially those with power to help and authority to address the situation. That could be a teacher, or if necessary, even the police.
Sadly, many time people who name the name of Christ, do things that are very hurtful. Often times, it comes from their own history of hurts in their lives and they don't know any better and have adopted a position that it's better to be the one hurting than the one being hurt. Christ is His own example. We should see Christ in Christians and love displayed. That's a reasonable expectation on one level. Often though, our expectations are not met when we look to others to be perfect. Only Jesus meets that.
I don't know if this helps. I sense your frustration and I'm sorry for what you're going through. I'll pray for you and ask God to give you wisdom.
bart
Sorry to be slow in responding to this. Forgiveness is a difficult thing and sometimes I think in Christian circles we are confused on a few things.
First, as a Christian, forgiveness is a major theme of God's message to us through Jesus Christ and it's also a major point of much that Jesus had to teach. When we accept Christ and His forgiveness of our sin and rebellion against Him, we also are placed in a position where we are expected as a natural response to Christ to forgive others.
The funny thing about it is that forgiving others may have some benefit for them, but in the end we're the ones' who benefit the most when we let go of hurts and grudges and give grace to other people.
Foregiveness doesn't mean that we declare that someone hasn't hurt us and then open ourselves in all instances to be hurt again. Forgiveness in many ways is us letting go of someone's throat and stopping the shaking. It's been said, and I agree, that withholding forgiveness from someone is like swallowing rat poison and then waiting for the rats to die. In the end, when we carry frudges and harbor resentments the person who suffers most, is not the person who has harmed us, who often is unaware or doesn't care; the person who suffers most is us. So when we forgive we give up the right for revenge or justice and place the situation into God's hands, knowing that God may just forgive that person, as He has forgiven us. We don't know. We just trust God with them and with the situation.
That doesn't mean we necessarily restore a relationship if the other person isn't willing to own their part. That doesn't mean we necessarily do nothing if the offense and abuse continues. Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek and I believe he meant that. Jesus speaks of persecution that will take place because of Christ. But there are also examples in the NT of people asserting their rights in other contexts. Paul appealed to Rome to hold off people who were trying to harm him. I don't believe he was wrong to do that.
If you're being bullied, it will be important for you to forgive and let go of that offense, but that doesn't mean you need to passively accept being bullied. Let people know, especially those with power to help and authority to address the situation. That could be a teacher, or if necessary, even the police.
Sadly, many time people who name the name of Christ, do things that are very hurtful. Often times, it comes from their own history of hurts in their lives and they don't know any better and have adopted a position that it's better to be the one hurting than the one being hurt. Christ is His own example. We should see Christ in Christians and love displayed. That's a reasonable expectation on one level. Often though, our expectations are not met when we look to others to be perfect. Only Jesus meets that.
I don't know if this helps. I sense your frustration and I'm sorry for what you're going through. I'll pray for you and ask God to give you wisdom.
bart
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
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jlay
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Re: Bad behavior
It is VERY hard to offer advice when we have and know so little of the situation. Obviously you are hurt. I'd love to say that I have never hurt or wronged anyone, but I would be misleading you if I did. I agree, we do need to attempt to make amends when we are able. However, that doesn't mean we will. And that certainly doesn't mean others will.
I'm curious. If C&J came to you, would you be willing to forgive them? You say there is no forgiveness for them, or others who 'pretend' to be Christians. That sounds extremely judgmental. Is there really any difference in your unwillingness to forgive them, and their unwillingness to make ammends with you. Maybe you can elaborate more on the situation so we can better know how to respond.
I'm curious. If C&J came to you, would you be willing to forgive them? You say there is no forgiveness for them, or others who 'pretend' to be Christians. That sounds extremely judgmental. Is there really any difference in your unwillingness to forgive them, and their unwillingness to make ammends with you. Maybe you can elaborate more on the situation so we can better know how to respond.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
Re: Bad behavior
Thank you so much for your thoughtful answers, I have read and reread them and I am giving them much thought. The most painful part is that C & J were trusted fellow Christians and I never thought that I would see they day that they took delight in hurting other Christians like they did. And it completely made everything I believe in all theses years seem to disappear.
I tried to forgive and turn the other cheek but they continued to hurt me and my whole family by what they did. I wanted to talk to our Pastor about it but it is still too painful and they are popular with their friends.
I know they need to make amends before I can forgive them and because of your help, I am willing to keep trying to work it out.
Thank you again!
cjmybad
I tried to forgive and turn the other cheek but they continued to hurt me and my whole family by what they did. I wanted to talk to our Pastor about it but it is still too painful and they are popular with their friends.
I know they need to make amends before I can forgive them and because of your help, I am willing to keep trying to work it out.
Thank you again!
cjmybad