Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
RickD wrote:Ok, Gman, gotcha. Just remember that God is in control, and ultimately what happens to Israel is in His hands.
Obviously... yes.
What so you believe the bible says is the ultimate fate of Israel?
M
God will eventually reveal why he established it there in the world. Ultimately the world will gather against her, unfortunately that will come with a heavy price tag for them.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
Seraph wrote:I'm not sure how a country recieving democracy could be a bad thing.
If Libya is currently receiving democracy it's looking pretty bad, it may pan out for the best in the long run but the bbc are reporting a fair amount of innocent blood. How much blood is needed and what sort of a democracy will it produce?
Perhaps democracy will allow the Gospel to be preached in areas of the world that weren't previously tolerant in the past. What man plans for evil, God uses for His will.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Thats a good point too RickD. If a missionary were to try and spread Christianity to Libya while Gaddafi was in power, they mightve ran into trouble. If those governments are elected by the general people, the heads of state will be much less oppressive and brutish. Thus, missionaries can more easily work over in those areas without losing their heads.
I am committed to belief in God, as the most morally demanding, psychologically enriching, intellectually satisfying and imaginatively fruitful hypothesis about the ultimate nature of reality known to me - Keith Ward
I had a 'debate' with a guy who takes himself too seriously about this stuff. He talked about how he was 'part of the revolution' and I was 'left behind' in my 'cynical doubts'. All I said in response to him was that I don't think democracy is as easy a thing to produce as he thinks it is - and that rebellion doesn't always lead to democracy. I suppose his optimism stems from, in part, his trust in humanity (he is, what he calls, a 'spiritualist', which in my estimation based on conversation is an atheist who uses religious jargon to confuse people - so reliance on humanity is his only choice if he is to rely on something at all).
America was a pretty unique case in the world - we had a revolution and after some failed attempts, we established a republic with the backing of a Constitution, and we did so with very little internal rebellion. Our first Constitutional leader even stepped down from his post after two elected sessions! France tried rebellion and decimated its own population, eventually reverting to an Empire-type form of government under Napoleon (basically a monarchy on steroids if my interpretation is accurate). Germany had a rebellion after the first World War and its feeble republic fell to a satanic ideologue. I guess I'm just not optimistic in the people of these nations to form genuine democracies. It just doesn't happen very often via bloody, violent, revolution.
Can God do it? Of course! If this is the method He uses and His purpose is making these nations more free, I have no doubt in Him. I just don't know that He is leading things that way, and I certainly don't trust people in His place.
A little aside... I was reading a news article on these rebellions and the author (who very much favored them) concluded his monologue with "Its time we stop doubting people's ability to form free democracies just because they speak Arabic" (or something to that effect). Funny... I don't think anyone doubts their ability because of language. Maybe past precedent, cultural conflicts, treatment of ethnic groups and women, religious implications, geography, neighboring nations, alliances and enemies, and the goings on in these rebellions is the reason people have doubts. Those are a few of my reasons anyway.
-- Josh
“When you see a man with a great deal of religion displayed in his shop window, you may depend upon it, he keeps a very small stock of it within” C.H. Spurgeon
1st Corinthians 1:17- "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel””not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power"
All I know is that when man tries to develop a one world government without God, it will produce very bad consequences like the tower of Babel... It's not a good thing.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
Gman wrote:Actually I can't take credit for this prophecy. I got it from a messianic Jewish rabbi last week. Looks like he was right on if it progresses.
Peace will come to the area, then sudden destruction.. People will blindly follow it. Unfortunately as predicted in the Bible, yet no one cares....
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if Muammar Gaddafi of Libya falls to the UN it will most certainly cause calamity when the people of Saudi Arabia revolt against their King Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz... The people could then gain control of the oil fields and then start to drive up the prices for America causing a world crisis. Let's see.. One plus one is two, two plus two is four.
Saudi Arabia should be one of the last countries to go... Why? Because they don't want to make it that obvious. For Saudi Arabia to fall would be huge... Right now to get the U.N. to destroy the smaller monarchies first, then later the Saudi monarchy will be the last one standing. It will most certainly have to go....
A domino effect...
Next on the list....
King Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
Democracy in countries where alot of people are Islamic fundamentalists is not a good thing. It's unlikely Saudia Arabia will fall, they cut royalty checks to their people every year to keep them in check.
