Since obviously my emails are not anywhere near your expectations (even from the grammar only), please sign-up to this site
http://discussions.godandscience.org/
After you sign-up, please tell me your username so I know which one is you.
This is a discussion forum. Please read the rules and follow them, OK?
I don't want you to get kicked-out from the forum just because you are using bad words or attacking and putting offensive things. Be civilized. Since you think I can't argue in the correct manner, then I hope you can show the good manner in that forum.
Speaking about attacking and putting offensive things, please don't do this:
" can't fathom how you can even become a CB teacher, considering how insensitive you are."
or
"By the Trinity's sakes, think CLEARLY! You are bamboozling, for lack of saying worse terms."
or
"I'm getting more and more exasperated by your replies, scientifically, religiously, logically, and intellectually"
please don't attack somebody's profession. Don't use capital words like that, it looks rude. And don't attack somebody's intellectual, logic, and religious beliefs. You know that they are all religious people, if you only going to say "religion is stupid", then there is no point signing-up to the forum and state the thing they heard everyday.
You are signing-up because you want arguments, not to attack and labeling people as stupid.
Tell me if you are willing or not willing to sign-up.
Next one,
Obligated? Obligated? To love? I cannot fathom your mind's misunderstandings and self-contradictions
This is quite outrageous, really. In the paragraph above, you said we have what you refer as "free will". Religiously (viewed from Christian perspective), you are wrong, not I. Why? Because no one is obligated to do anything. Please, please, please, I inquire you; create a correct counter- argument. You are contradicting yourself. By the way, there is a condition for women after giving worth which makes her dread her child/ren; a unique shock. It makes mothers hate her children, no matter whether she wants it or not. It is not a choice. Answer that.
So hate in here is not a choice? Btw, you said type slowly, what is the meaning of this sentence "By the way, there is a condition for women after giving worth which makes her dread her child/ren" anyway?
Obligated is situation where a person should/must do something. Can we choose not to do it? yes (and live with the consequence). Can we choose to do it but still in our heart/mind not agree with it? Yes. Can we choose to do it with acceptance/understanding? Yes.
Can a mom obligated to love her child? Yes. But can she still taking excellent care of her child with hate in her mind/heart? yes. Can she choose to take care her children with excellent care and pure love? Yes. A matter of choice.
So, there are lot of things we are oblige to do, but from Christian point of view, nothing can control our mind/heart while we are doing the obligations (God can change our hear/mind, but He doesn't want to do that).
and by the way, there are 6 billions people in this world, do you know exactly there is NO human saved from all those horror? there are many people said "it is a miracle i can survive", i believe that means he/she is saved from those horror miraculously.
do you know exactly that there is no african child being miraculously saved and fed either by miracle something popped out from nowhere or either by somebody come to save some of them and bring them to other country to get a better life.
SURPRISE SURPRISE! THERE ARE WORLD WIDE ORGANIZATIONS THAT "DONATES" AND GIVES FOOD TO SOME OF THEM! WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? POP OUT OF NOWHERE? Please think clearly.
Please read carefully. I said "do you know exactly that there is no african child being miraculously saved and fed either by miracle something popped out from nowhere or either by somebody come to save some of them and bring them to other country to get a better life"
What I am trying to ask is : "If you say miracle is something popped out from nowhere, then do you think world wide organizations trying to save them is not consider a miracle for them?"
Since many people try to save them then it is not a miracle? But if something popped out from nowhere it is a miracle? I think in that african child mind, being saved no matter how, it is miracle for them.
If (yeah again with the if) there is something popped out from nowhere it is sure a miracle. But if it doesn't happen, for them, what is important is how from hundreds/thousands people suffering they are the one got chosen to be saved by the world wide organizations (you can call it luck or coincidence. Calling it luck/coincidence/miracle is just how people choose what word to use).
Me : but saving ALL people from suffering indicates no miracle (since that means nothing bad ever happen) and there is no free will.
if earthquakes doesnt cause any damage or casualties, do you think earthquake is bad? i dont think so.
Hey. you are starting to become sillier.
Again with the attacking. Sillier? So what are you trying to say, you are much much smarter than me? If you think I am stupid, don't talk to me and don't argue with me since I can't keep-up with your intelligence. How offensive to talk like this.
You're going with ifs and what ifs. I am going with facts and reality. "Nothing bad ever happen" IS A MIRACLE! What's wrong with your brain? People will see "Given the capabilities of human error, stupidity, nature's disasters and astronomic chaos, it's one hell of a miracle, hell yeah!" No human is saved from these horrors? "and by the way, there are 6 billions people in this world, do you know exactly there is NO human saved from all those horror?" for intellect's sakes please think CLEARLY! THERE ARE SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND NO ACTUAL SURVEY TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH. In an argument, we do not lie, make up "facts", or act like a smartypants! You say there is no free will if nothing bad ever happens? By the Trinity's sakes, think CLEARLY! You are bamboozling, for lack of saying worse terms. There is no free will in the first place! What if I want to kill the entire human race? I can't. If I try to, that means I'm "free!" to go to jail.
What is the matter in here? I don't see the reason why you typed in so many capital words (since I am so silly).
I said, " and by the way, there are 6 billions people in this world, do you know exactly there is NO human saved from all those horror?"
Did my sentence can be considered this way : yea, since there are NO ACTUAL SURVEY TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH then we are not able to know exactly if a miracle happen anywhere in this world. And vice versa, we are not able to know exactly if there is NO miracle happen anywhere in this world.
Not you or me, or anybody in this world can say one thing doesn't happen or does happen anywhere, anytime in this world.
About free to go to jail. Going to jail is just the consequence you can't handle if you kill human being. If you can take the consequence, sure you can kill human. Is killing wrong? yes. But can you do it? Yes. So where is no free will in the first place you try to make me understand? Back to the obligations at the beginning of this email.
yes, i agree that it seems cruel to let so many people suffer. but you have to realize that living in this world is just temporary. our human lives is just like a blink of an eye compare to eternity. and we know from history that human is not getting better. we learn, we heard, we read, there are so many killings and war happened in the past and cause so many sufferings, then people now should realize and choose not to do the killing and war anymore. but what can we see now? still war and killing everywhere.
some people get better, some people get worse. it is just the result of the free will.
God doesnt interfere in all of the things human does in this world. He let the world run the way it is. and the sad part is, the bad things, most of them, come from human itself.
Temporary? I see. Well, go to scorching Africa and stay there without money and scrounge for food for the rest of your life. Let's see how "temporary" that life is. You are selfish and not thinking about how "temporary" life can become. One second in hell is temporary, sure. What if a guy gets sent to hell for a second? He'll come back as an insane, babbling psychomaniac. Unbelievable. Simply unbelieveable. I can't fathom how you can even become a CB teacher, considering how insensitive you are.
Again with the attacking. Who is not civilized here anyway. Did I ever say anything about you being silly, insensitive, or anything so offensive.
BTW, I said temporary or "blink of an eye" is a fact you know. No matter how long the person suffering feels (feels like eternity), still the fact that person live around what 70/80/90/100 years. 100 years compare to the age of this earth? Like a blink of an eye.
How long did the longest war in this wold happen? 200/300/400 years? Compare to the age of the earth, like a blink of an eye. See the big picture. No matter how long, how cruel, a person suffers, still that person is just like a piece of salt in the middle of the ocean. Insensitive? Yes, but that is the fact.
So, this is fact. Why do you get so upset and calling me insensitive. No need to attack. You can attack someone stating a fact right.
Now, who is not thinking rationally and thinking emotionally now.
So our life, no matter how important, precious, is nothing actually. That is exactly why for Christian believers, living and what is happening in this world is not the main thing. Yes, while we are living in this world we should give our best, love others, do the best for others and so on, and so on, but that is not the big picture. Christians do all those things as the respond to God's love for them. They don't do good things to get God's love or to impress God. They do not do it because of the obligations/Bible told them to. But they do it because they feel grateful for what God has done for them (things that you still don't get it until now).
For Christians, what is important is the afterlife, the eternity. That is the big picture. If you are reading the Bible, in one verse in New Testament, he said, suffering and living in this world is just temporary, it doesn't worth comparing to the glory.
I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory about to be revealed to us. (Romans 8:18)
So we do not lose heart. Even though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day. For this slight momentary affliction is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory beyond all measure, because we look not at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen; for what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18)
Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth, for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory. (Colossians 3:2-4)
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. (1 John 4:18-19)
We are suffering not because of Him. But because of our own, human all over the world, bad choices. And He always loves us no matter what, that's why the easy way out is only to love Him back. He knows we are not able not to do sin, it is impossible for us to be good/ pure like God. It is not what He ask from us. What is the condition of salvation? To humble ourselves that we need saving, admitting He is the one who can save us and to love Him back.
Yes, there are a lot of nice, kind, loving human being that caught in the middle of this black, cruel, horror world. That kind of people need saving. How can they be saved? Easy, love Him back. Why then He is not saving the people who love Him from the horror from this world? Back again, that is not the big picture. The saving He meant is the saving for eternity, not just couple of years in this world.
The world is beautiful. But consider the words I am quoting from a Cambridge professor; "... the world is a beautiful and fantastic place, but however so it was it does not help food get to your table.
Africa is incredibly beautiful, hell yeah. But do you think that helps its inhabitants get food to the table, aside from tourism? Look at its current state. Africa is like a prostitute selling herself for money. Do you think I am exaggerating? The amount of drugs, murder, lawlessness, diseases, insect plagues, famines, deaths, disasters, and whoring is astounding. I will NOT take a rest from thinking things like God is cruel. You are basically telling me to give up this argument because I need rest.
t
God's sakes. I will not comply.
This answers everything. I mean, the whole big-long-wide arguments to so many people you did, you already set up your mind that you will not rest from thinking God is cruel. So what is the point of your argument? Trying to make others think that God is cruel too?
If that is the case, then there are no ending to these arguments no matter who you are talking to, except the one that agrees with you.
Just the same like I have set my mind to not think God is cruel, the point of my argument to you is trying to make you think that God is not cruel. So, there is no ending of this arguments. It is endless because each side won't budge.
The question now, since you know that is endless, are you still want to continue?
I'm getting more and more exasperated by your replies, scientifically, religiously, logically, and intellectually. Your religion considers animals are soul-less beings that has no major importance whatsoever. Your religion considers humans as the highest form of Earthly being. Animals and humans are the same because using the scientific term of animal, humans are animals (look it up; scientific definition for animals). Structurally many humans are better than us, but our brains are the ones that makes the difference.
Please, think again.
I take the example of animal not that contradicts my belief or Bible. It is not because I am silly. But I just want to make a point here.
Killing and torture will never consider good if it is done to human being. Is that right? Maybe so. But think it this way, if killing never occurs, how full this world can be. (Yea, not a nice way to reduce population, but hey, human is stupid). Torture can happen back again to the choice of the people who done it. One people can decide to end others life by shooting them right in the head, no prolong pain. But one can decide to prolong the pain by doing the torture. Who to blame? OK, to your point of view, blame it to God again. *sigh*. So human are not responsible for anything, right. They are just given the choice of doing evil because God created/not get rid of evil. *sigh*.
the bible. reading the bible is tricky. the same like how you see the world and how you see the God.
When you see the world and God is bad or cruel, then it is how you will see the bible no matter what verse you read.
you can use the bible as weapon to attack the religion or god. it just a matter of choice.
A matter of choice? How fantastic! By the way, you are not answering my questions AT ALL. Please do so next time!
Can't really answer it, can you? Please reply.
What is exactly your questions? Or whether it is more precise when I ask, what do you want me to answer you? To say and to confirm that God is cruel? Not going to happen.
BTW, why it is so fantastic if I said reading the Bible is just a matter of perspective?
You can read bible verses I quoted in a very bad way. I read it in a very good way. It's a matter of perspective.
***Miss Linda, next time, please use correct grammar, spelling and capital words; please type slowly. Do not be too vigorous in the reply, and please use civilities. I did the last time I mailed you. Note that you wrote the word damn in this mail. Great improvement for the application of bad words! Last time, did I use a bad word? Maybe I should!***
I'm feeling rather happy now. Next time, please add more bad words!
Thank you very much! Come again!
Please reply. Thank you very much!
About my grammar, spelling and capital words, this is somehow offensive. You know right from the day you know me that my grammar is not excellent, why this become a problem now. About spelling, there are no red words according to the spell checker ( so once again, I don't have good enough English to know this so I don'y know why you are making this a problem). Limited vocabulary? once again, you know me. Capital words , OK this one is my fault. Too lazy to differentiate.
Bad words? Damn? OK, my bad. People made mistakes. :p
(in my defense, damn is not as rude as "[love]" or "son of the *****")
Won't happen again. Did I write bad words in this email. Hopefully not.
Back again to basic thing.
If you still think God is cruel, God is the source and to be blamed of all bad things in this world (either He created them or He isn't doing anything about it), then it is useless and pointless to state anything wonderful Christian's see. Once again, it is just a matter or perspective. You take it or not take it. You can see it or can't see it.
Blame it all to Him. Said that He is unjust, cruel, insensitive, uncaring, whatever you want. Said that religious people are stupid.
Now the question is, what is good to say that thing? What good can be taken out from it?
I don't deny that many atheists are good people, yes, a lot of them even better than religious people. But, what then? If the atheist is the one that doesn't believe God exist then what next, living in the world is just as meaningless as a piece of salt in the middle of ocean.
If the atheist is the one who know God exist but despise Him, then what next? because they hate Him so much they rather choose to hate Him to eternity and choose to burn in hell so not being in the same place as He is (the Heaven). Or the atheist is so proud of himself, thinks that he doesn't need saving?
You have to understand this, bad religious people is not the result/effect of being religious, or they become bad after they become religious. Even so, back again it is because of their false understanding of things.
Same thing can apply to atheist. They become good not because they have no religion. They become bad not because they got no religion. It is just a a matter of choice.
Have religion or not, believe in God or not, believe He is a savior or not, is not the only factor that determines whether a person is good or bad. So don't blame it to the God or to the religion. It is choice of human being.
When people live in this world they suffer from a kind of starvation/hunger. Call it whatever you want, hunger to fill the hollow and the meaning of their existence. When people in hunger they can do anything. Same like physical hunger.
Some people can starve to death rather than doing something bad as stealing or robbing. Some people choose to kill/rob/steal so they can still live. Some people beg. Some people pray for miracle to happen. Many many ways. Religion/atheist are just choices available to fill the hunger. If one doesn't succeed, try others. Choose, consider the result, and live with the consequences either it is good or bad.