I honestly wished it was that easy: give your life to Jesus, no change of heart and life, continue living a sinful lifestyle and still go to Heaven
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Logically, if you live a sinful lifestyle then you didn't give your life to Jesus. Being a true Christian means, among other things, to obey the moral laws which Jesus himself often mentioned and held in a high regard. You can't have one foot in Hell and the other one in Heaven, besides those laws exist for a reason. As for the sins, God will forgive if you honestly repent, but if you live a philosophy "I'll sin now and repent later", that's obviously wrong and disrespectful.FearlessLlearsy wrote:I honestly wished it was that easy: give your life to Jesus, no change of heart and life, continue living a sinful lifestyle and still go to Heaven
Logic class? How did this come to be discussed in logic class?FearlessLlearsy wrote:So, this one is an important one. In logic class the other day, my teacher said once you pray the sinner's prayer and accept Jesus Christ, you have Salvation no matter what you do???? What she is saying does not sound to Biblical for me, and i have my reasons, but i would like to know what you guys think.
I honestly wished it was that easy: give your life to Jesus, no change of heart and life, continue living a sinful lifestyle and still go to Heaven
By "living a sinful lifestyle" I meant living while deliberately ignoring the moral law, i.e. knowing that what you're doing is wrong and yet continuing to do it. I am aware, of course, that we're all sinners so we're not in the best position to judge, but I don't see anything negative in pointing out what's right or wrong. Yes, I also qualify under "sinner", however I try my best to live Christianity and avoid sinning as much as possible. How efficient am I in doing so, I'm probably not the most objective person to answer that, but I learn the lessons and I believe that I'm growing into a better person over time. Being a good person by itself can't save me, as you said, but I believe it plays an important role nevertheless. That's much different than, for instance, people who claim to be devout Christians, yet their lifestyles don't reflect their words at all - as I've witnessed too often, unfortunately. I think we'll agree on that. Jesus spoke about moral a lot, and I believe that following the moral law is one way of recognizing His word.jlay wrote:let me clarify. Sinning is wrong. And sinning destroys our fellowship with God. But I reject totally the propsition by reactionary. I would challenge anyone with this position to dare to measure themselves by the same standard they judge by. People have sinful lifestyles because they are sinners. Obeying moral laws is a noble thing, but it will no more save you, than following the teachings of the Koran. If it could then Jesus wouldn't even have had to come and die. The word repent is often misused. Reactionary, I'm curious how are you using the word? Define it for us please.
Sounds like you have a smart teacher. Salvation is a gift from God, free to us because Jesus paid the price. You can not buy it, and what could you offer God to keep it? Mans righteousness is like a dirty menstrual rag to God. Think of the Passover, the only think that saved the Hebrew 1st born was the blood. And the only thing that saves us is the blood!FearlessLlearsy wrote:So, this one is an important one. In logic class the other day, my teacher said once you pray the sinner's prayer and accept Jesus Christ, you have Salvation no matter what you do???? What she is saying does not sound to Biblical for me, and i have my reasons, but i would like to know what you guys think.
I honestly wished it was that easy: give your life to Jesus, no change of heart and life, continue living a sinful lifestyle and still go to Heaven
What do you think Mandelduke about this?Jlay, what i meant is that: A person tells me he is saved. However, his life is still the same prior to his repentence to Christ. No change. Does not the Bible mention of us being a new creation when we accept Jesus Christ? Also, in Matthew, when his disciples (i think) asked him: Jesus, how will you differentiate a good tree from a bad one. Jesus answered them: By its fruit.
No doubts we are and will always remain sinners. But dont you think when we have Jesus Christ in our hearts, the fruits of the Spirit naturally flows and exhibits themselves in our lives?
So, is it possible that the person in the first place had never truly accepted Christ?
I understand. The bible does speak to this. In fact James' letter is all about the outward evidence. This is how men judge. Yes, the bible mentions us being a new creation. But let us examime. Paul says that old things have passed away, behold all things have become new. Does the believer immediately inherit a new sinless physical nature when they believe? Does the pull of the flesh suddenly dissapear?Jlay, what i meant is that: A person tells me he is saved. However, his life is still the same prior to his repentence to Christ. No change. Does not the Bible mention of us being a new creation when we accept Jesus Christ? Also, in Matthew, when his disciples (i think) asked him: Jesus, how will you differentiate a good tree from a bad one. Jesus answered them: By its fruit.
But dont you think when we have Jesus Christ in our hearts, the fruits of the Spirit naturally flows and exhibits themselves in our lives?
How does one sin without ignoring the moral law? What is your scriptural support here? Are you saying as a believer that you've never done this? That you've never done something wrong, knowing it is wrong? That is quite a claim. Have you done this in your thought life, your diet, your finances, etc? Are you saying that only certain sins are wrong for the believer? The bible says that sin is transgression of the law. It also says that failing to do good is also sin.By "living a sinful lifestyle" I meant living while deliberately ignoring the moral law, i.e. knowing that what you're doing is wrong and yet continuing to do it.
That really isn't the question. The question is: Is following the moral law the real way to salvation. That says, Trust in Jesus + follow the moral law = salvation. That still says that there is an outside standard (The Law) that you have to live up to. Saying, 'follow the moral law' sounds great. It sounds noble. But if it were the way, then Christ died in vain. Now many hear this and think, "you are saying we shouldn't be moral." No, not at all. It is by faith in Christ that we are saved. And it is also by faith that we please God. The only true way to be holy is through faith in Christ. If a believer is in sin, then they are essentially denying what God has said about them and what they have access to.Jesus spoke about moral a lot, and I believe that following the moral law is one way of recognizing His word.
Define seal in the Holy Spirit.This is how men judge. Yes, the bible mentions us being a new creation. But let us examime. Paul says that old things have passed away, behold all things have become new. Does the believer immediately inherit a new sinless physical nature when they believe? Does the pull of the flesh suddenly dissapear?
No. The believer inherits a new sinless spiritual standing. And they are sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Of course faith without works is dead. But that isn't the issue. it would appear to me that you are saying that this means that the person loses their salvation.However, i will argue that Faith without Works is dead.
I already addressed the word 'accept' in another post. What is enough, is to come to a right faith in the work and message of Jesus Christ.So, is it really enough to say "Jesus, I accept you Lord" and not follow Him?
Where does Jesus say this is the 3 steps of being a true Christian? Do you meaure your own "Christianity" by this standard? I would challange you to prove to us here that you have denied yourself in all things, picked up your cross (and explain this concept) and followed Him faithfully in every area of your life. Was Jesus confused when he said John 5:24 and John 3:16?Jesus clearly shows us the 3 steps of being a true Christian.
1.Deny yourself.
2.Pick up your cross.
3.Follow Him
So, is it really enough to say "Jesus, I accept you Lord" and not follow Him?
Once again, as i said in another post, only God truly knows the heart.
i don't really have the time to go into an entire discourse on dispensational theology, but to sum it up. Depending on how one reads the bible there will either be agreement or contradiction. Under one method verses such as John 3:16, romans 2:8-9 and others will contradict with Jesus' teaching in Matt 24-25. Period. People don't want to admit it, but it does. So, one has to ask, is the bible reliable, or am i dividing the scripture in the correct manner? In other words, are you correctly applying what you are reading. Obviously the context of Matt 25 means everything. Do we understand such things as the 2nd advent, tribulation, inheriting the Kingdom, and more. This is no easy task. But ultimately one has to ask, is this teaching in Matt the gospel of our salvation? Or is something else being taught? If you believe it is the gospel, then I simply ask, are you saved? Have you visited the prisons, hospitals, etc. And if so, how many times do we need to do this to be saved. once? Twice? Everyday?“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13-14Define seal in the Holy Spirit.