Hi, I've been exploring some Jewish belief stuff and I was wondering what Christians consider against these ideas:
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1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
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So where do Jewish people get their guidelines for the messiah? Are they reading the same Torah we have?
Basically to sum it up: How do Christian people respond to these assertions? (these are new ideas to me so I'm just wondering about other background info, good resources to learn from, what are some of the stipulations with this stuff etc. )
Thanks a lot!
Messianic Prophecies
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Silvertusk
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Re: Messianic Prophecies
A) This could easily be referring to New Jerusalem.
B) This is saying that God is Israel's only saviour - this is true.
C) Definately a description of the Second coming and reads like Revelations
D) Sounds like the great commission to me and the work of the Holy Spirit.
Don't see a problem with any of those personally.
Silvertusk.
B) This is saying that God is Israel's only saviour - this is true.
C) Definately a description of the Second coming and reads like Revelations
D) Sounds like the great commission to me and the work of the Holy Spirit.
Don't see a problem with any of those personally.
Silvertusk.
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Seraph
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Re: Messianic Prophecies
I would say that those specific prophecies refer to things that haven't taken place yet. I believe Revelations is all about how those things will take place eventually.
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jlay
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Re: Messianic Prophecies
Well the answer to that question is really going to depend on your theology and eschatology. You can find a lot of information on dispensationalism that deals with all these questions. Since many if not most people here are not true dispensationalists there answers may not agree with mine.
Ultimately the problem with this objection hurts the Jewish position. Daniel's prophesy of 70 weeks actually predicted the time the Messiah would come. In fact this is likely why the Magi were looking for His star. These were men from the East, and let us not forget that all of Daniel's life was spent in the East in Babylon. Israel itself was looking for its Messiah at the time of Christ as well. So, if the Messiah did not come, then Daniel's prophesy was wrong. 2ndly, IMO, the rejection of the Messiah by Israel is responsible for the delay in some of these prophesies fulfillment. They will be fulfilled.
Regarding Ezekiel. I don't think you can determine from the reading that this is actually referring to a physical temple.
Regarding Isaiah 43. How would one take a plain reading of the text in its context, and conclude that this means the Messiah will bring all Jews back to the same geographical location? Oddly though, Jews are in Israel and more return each day.
Ultimately the problem with this objection hurts the Jewish position. Daniel's prophesy of 70 weeks actually predicted the time the Messiah would come. In fact this is likely why the Magi were looking for His star. These were men from the East, and let us not forget that all of Daniel's life was spent in the East in Babylon. Israel itself was looking for its Messiah at the time of Christ as well. So, if the Messiah did not come, then Daniel's prophesy was wrong. 2ndly, IMO, the rejection of the Messiah by Israel is responsible for the delay in some of these prophesies fulfillment. They will be fulfilled.
Regarding Ezekiel. I don't think you can determine from the reading that this is actually referring to a physical temple.
Regarding Isaiah 43. How would one take a plain reading of the text in its context, and conclude that this means the Messiah will bring all Jews back to the same geographical location? Oddly though, Jews are in Israel and more return each day.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious
Re: Messianic Prophecies
Forgive me, because I really don't know much information here...there's probably a lot of stuff I should know that I don't that would make this easier.
So what is the issue for Jewish people? Do they think Christians translated things wrong? Do they think everything was supposed to happen right when Jesus came?
I guess I'm wondering why they don't believe what we do, and why. If we're right shouldn't they believe it? I guess that's the basic thing. Could you outline each of the above as far as why Jews believe their position, and our rebuttal.
Sorry to be so.. needy, but it would help a lot since I don't know much theology stuff.
So what is the issue for Jewish people? Do they think Christians translated things wrong? Do they think everything was supposed to happen right when Jesus came?
I guess I'm wondering why they don't believe what we do, and why. If we're right shouldn't they believe it? I guess that's the basic thing. Could you outline each of the above as far as why Jews believe their position, and our rebuttal.
Sorry to be so.. needy, but it would help a lot since I don't know much theology stuff.